Here we go again: Alexandria XLF

[Steve Williams]

Mark Seaton makes a fantastic sub

 

[Ron Party]

Mark makes several subs. The answer is yes.

 

[JackD201]

Do you think they're better than your JL Gothams?

You should have been a journalist covering politics Dan! You love those fence busters dontcha.

 

[mauidan]

Mark makes several subs. The answer is yes.

Gee, thanks Doc.

So, you've compared Mark's subs to the JL Gothams, big Velodynes and Wilson Thors in the same system, in the same room?

Please give us the details on the room, main speakers and electronics that were used.

Jack,

I'm just looking for the truth.

 

[RBFC]

The Seaton Terraforms (for instance) use massive cabinets, which have the theoretical capability of producing lower frequencies at equal volume without the same EQ boost (and thus, the amplifier headroom limitations) as subwoofers that use smaller volume enclosures. They may also extend deeper into infrasonic territory. Whether one would experience "better" bass performance from them is dependent upon the same placement factors as mentioned before. Because of their size, they may not always be as easy to place in the ideal spot as a unit that is half the size. For most of us, our listening spaces are pre-defined. Therefore, we can't plan ahead to make room for a pair of cabinets that are the size of moderate refrigerators. So, a subwoofer that blocks your projection screen just won't work regardless of how good it performs.

In the end, I feel it's about compromise. Some folks may have more severe compromises than others, either by virtue of space limitations or budget limitations.

Lee

 

[Mark Seaton]

Gee, thanks Doc.

So, you've compared Mark's subs to the JL Gothams, big Velodynes and Wilson Thors in the same system, in the same room?

Please give us the details on the room, main speakers and electronics that were used.

Jack,

I'm just looking for the truth.

"Better" is a highly personal descriptor and very dependent on what each enthusiast prioritizes. Comparisons will of course get quite fuzzy when very different distribution and prices come into play. You could easily have 4 SubMersives for the street price of a Gotham. You get different things from each that will not be of equal value to every enthusiast.

More to the point, you specifically asked for an opinion when you inquired what Ron or others "think" are better subwoofers. You can get more context on how anyone comes to their position, but the question you posed has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with opinion.

Happy Holidays, :b

 

[Mark Seaton]

Mark Seaton makes a fantastic sub

Mark makes several subs. The answer is yes.

Thank you both.

Having known Steve for so long through my crazy audio journey, I often think of getting around to something that might be worth playing with as a fun compliment to his massive X2's... Hopefully some time down the road I'll get around to something worth hulking up all those stairs!

 

[mauidan]

"Better" is a highly personal descriptor and very dependent on what each enthusiast prioritizes. Comparisons will of course get quite fuzzy when very different distribution and prices come into play. You could easily have 4 SubMersives for the street price of a Gotham. You get different things from each that will not be of equal value to every enthusiast.

More to the point, you specifically asked for an opinion when you inquired what Ron or others "think" are better subwoofers. You can get more context on how anyone comes to their position, but the question you posed has nothing to do with truth and everything to do with opinion.

Happy Holidays, :b

Mark,

Unlike you, I'm not trying to sell speakers.

Unless Ron has compared your subs to the JL Gothams,bigVelodynes and Wilson Thors in the same system, in the same room his opinion/recommendation is meaningless to me.

That's the truth.

And just in case you missed it, this is the Wilson Audio forum. I doubt anyone from Wilson Audio would post anything about their products in your WBF forum.

FYI, since Ron is a "Super Moderator" on this forum, I've asked him a number of times to describe his system, but he refuses to share this info.

Mele Kalikimaka

 

[Ron Party]

Mark,

Unlike you, I'm not trying to sell speakers.

You know, Steve mentioned Mark's subwoofers before Mark entered this thread and even then Mark did not enter this thread to sell his subwoofers. Moreover, Mark is well known in this industry and to my knowledge he never, ever, disparages anyone else's subwoofers or speakers. He is one of the finest, nicest, and smartest people one ever will meet in the A/V industry. And finally, Mark is an invited expert in our forum and joins in from time to time.

It would be nice if you could keep this in mind in your future posts.

Unless Ron has compared your subs to the JL Gothams,bigVelodynes and Wilson Thors in the same system, in the same room his opinion/recommendation is meaningless to me.

That's the truth.

You asked for an opinion, I gave it to you. That you like it or do not like it or that you feel entitled to demand further information from me may be meaningless to me.

FYI, since Ron is a "Super Moderator" on this forum, I've asked him a number of times to describe his system, but he refuses to share this info.

Indeed, you have asked several times, both on line as well as via PMs, even going so far as to register under a different user name after having been banned, then again asking for my system information both on line as well as via PM under your new user name. I feel so flattered to have a stalker. And, BTW, the last reason you gave (on line) for wanting to know my system was that you thought you could find bias in my opinions (even though in PM you insisted the *friendly* thing was for me to share that information). So I must beg for forgiveness for disclosing dirty laundry and for being less than forthcoming with you given your history.

Now before you (like usual) feel compelled to respond in this thread with further personal attacks aimed at either Mark or me, you are advised to re-read our Terms of Service. You continued participation in this thread is expected to be on topic, not on person.

 

[Lildebs888]

I think this was Robert Harley?

Both Robert Harley and Jacob Heilbrunn where in town this week to hear the comparison. Was a great demo - I got to hear it this evening!

Happy Holidays!

Debby

 

[Lildebs888]

I found this thread interesting but disturbing at the same time. My first reaction was to note the continued and almost vitriolic animosity for a man whose passion has both facilitated the performance of reproduced music over several decades, and who has created a successful business in doing so. How can you not give kudos to these efforts? Now, while some of you have admitted that your animosity reflects the fact the his products are expensive and not affordable to you, it seems that this sentiment is a mirroed reflection of our general culture and our times. We are increasingly becoming a society of haves and have nots and we are losing the middle class. So it doesn't surprise me that some of appear to be of the Occupy Wall Street mindset. Hey, I share your pain. I work hard and I'd love to be able to buy a 200K speaker but just simply cannot. However I'm not sure I would be so quick to condemn Dave Wilson, who, according to just about anybody that knows what drives the guy, appears to be on a genuine quest to improve music reproduction. To begrudge him for being successful, or for charging more than you think he should charge, seems like a cheap shot and one that is out of context to his company's mission. Also keep in mind that he could easily outsource his speaker building to China or other ex-US companies which in all liklihood would lower the retail cost. But he doesn't. The reasons why are known only to him I suppose, but somewhere you have to suspect that he's genuinely obsessed with quality and quality control about his products. Why not applaud him for that at least? That said, the thing that really makes me wonder why so many of you are angry at the guy, is because his efforts over the years have been a big part of the tidal movement we have seen to bring excellent sound to the masses at very moderate prices. His technology always trickles down to lower priced models, as expensive as those may be. But he does it, and that's the point. The audiophile now has a plethora of really modest priced equipment they could only dream about years ago; Oppo CD players, Magenplanar and PSB speakers, decent cabling from many sources, modest priced and superb amplifiers, etc, etc, etc. Now, Dave Wilson was not necessarily directly responsible for those products, but the idea that his high priced technologies are eventually applied to lower priced products certainly contributed to an industry phenomenon where that very trend became the norm, and thus allowed the wealth of great mid-priced gear we know today. Most folks would readily agree that the top end of the Wilson line provides very little additonal sonic benefit for a disproportional degree of improvement over lower priced models. In my view, there is something still pretty special about the Sasha that even the high priced spread can't touch. And let's be honest. How many people really need a speaker that is that much better than the Sophia 3? I heard these last year in Berkeley with Spectral gear and was mightily impressed. No way Dave could have ever made those more affordable speakers without trickle down technology from the high priced spread and the things he learned along the way. All this praise suggests by no means there aren't things to criticize about the man or the company. In fact, I'l go farther. When the Alexandia was released, I considered it almost criminal that a 150K speaker had essentially no useful bass down to 20Hz, which is why so many owners have found that supplementing these speakers with JL audio or other subwoofers finally took the speaker to where it should have been on the first place. But hey, nobody's perfect. And I'll bet you Dave would be quick to say that even he is still learning. But for goodness sake, give the man his due. He is in the pantheon of speaker designers for a reason. If you don't appreciate his passion and drive to advance our field, and if you think he's "in it for the money?, then we will just respectfully have to agree to disagree. Its easy to be jealous that we do not or cannot afford his products, but there are tons of other things out there that we can. But let's not lose sight of the big picture. The guy is an asset to our hobby because of his love for music. And if you don't think so, can you tell me of anyone else who can build a 200K speak that nobody else has yet heard, and which is capable of generating 7 pages of notes on this forum? Show the guy some love for Christ's sake. After all, tis the season.

Thank you, Marty, for your kind comments toward my father. I appreciate that there are people like you and others that I have seen on this and other forums out there that see my father for what he is, what his vision is, and the type of person he really is. I aspire to be more like my father!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Gee, thanks Doc.

So, you've compared Mark's subs to the JL Gothams, big Velodynes and Wilson Thors in the same system, in the same room?

Please give us the details on the room, main speakers and electronics that were used.

Jack,

I'm just looking for the truth.

What about Mark Porzilli's Depthcharge/subs that are now made for the Scaenas? They're mighty impressive and could take out a house

 

[microstrip]

(...) In the end, I feel it's about compromise. Some folks may have more severe compromises than others, either by virtue of space limitations or budget limitations.

Lee

Or how loud they listen and how low they need to go - this is very dependent on the type of music.

My experience with subs is limited - mainly RELs, Wilson Watchdog and Martin Logan's Descents, but I have the feeling that the critical points in subs is the integration with the room and the integration with the main speakers. Unless you have experience with it you never know how a sub will work with a type of speaker.

 

[Steve Williams]

Thank you both.

Having known Steve for so long through my crazy audio journey, I often think of getting around to something that might be worth playing with as a fun compliment to his massive X2's... Hopefully some time down the road I'll get around to something worth hulking up all those stairs!

It would be fun Mark

Happy Holidays Mark

 

[microstrip]

The most noticeable change introduced by the Thors was a change in venue. This was a subtle but audible shift. The humidity of the room, if you will, was altered. It was as though the music became more three-dimensional, suffusing the air. To call this mere “palpability” does not suffice. Instead, the Thors greatly increased the sense of dimensionality—a visual analogy might be that it was akin to watching a movie in 3-D. The frequency spectrum sounds even more continuous, more of a piece. (...)

No, I did not write it myself ... . But you can read it all at http://www.avguide.com/review/wilson-audio-alexandria-x-2-series-2-loudspeakerthor-s-hammer-subwoofer-tas-218 . It is Jacob Heilbrunn describing his experience with Wilson Audio Alexandria X-2 Series 2 Loudspeaker/Thor’s Hammer Subwoofer (TAS 218).

 

[LL21]

The most noticeable change introduced by the Thors was a change in venue. This was a subtle but audible shift. The humidity of the room, if you will, was altered. It was as though the music became more three-dimensional, suffusing the air. To call this mere “palpability” does not suffice. Instead, the Thors greatly increased the sense of dimensionality—a visual analogy might be that it was akin to watching a movie in 3-D. The frequency spectrum sounds even more continuous, more of a piece. (...)

No, I did not write it myself ... . But you can read it all at http://www.avguide.com/review/wilson-audio-alexandria-x-2-series-2-loudspeakerthor-s-hammer-subwoofer-tas-218 . It is Jacob Heilbrunn describing his experience with Wilson Audio Alexandria X-2 Series 2 Loudspeaker/Thor’s Hammer Subwoofer (TAS 218).

It is an excellent read...and speaking only for myself...i suspect if i had to choose, i would still run X2s2 and Thor's rather than go XLF (roughly the same cost outlay incl amp for Thors & Cabling). Until i hear, i could not say for sure, but i can say for sure that core-of-the-earth bass foundation is something i relish. I have a fair taste of that in my room with the Slamms and the Velodyne+Auralex, and it is positively addictive.

 

[Lildebs888]

Another look at the comparison between the Alexandria X-2 Series 2 and the Alexandria XLF from Marc Mickelson of The Audio Beat:

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/wilson_audio_alexandria_xlf.htm

 

[Gregadd]

Hopefully some time down the road I'll get around to something worth hulking up all those stairs!

A starway to audio heaven. Smile

 

[LL21]

Another look at the comparison between the Alexandria X-2 Series 2 and the Alexandria XLF from Marc Mickelson of The Audio Beat:

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/wilson_audio_alexandria_xlf.htm

Thanks for that...good read. Look forward to the formal review and to hearing it hopefully next month.

 

[Lildebs888]

Another look at the comparison between the Alexandria X-2 Series 2 and the Alexandria XLF from Jacob Heilbrunn.

http://www.avguide.com/blog/wilson-alexandria-xlf-further-thoughts