Worst let down from a new piece of gear

[DaveyF]

I have pretty much enjoyed most of the new gear that I have utilized in my systems
over the years. However, i recently did something which I never do, I bought a piece
of gear without first listening to it...
In my case, it is my Musical Fidelity X CanV3 that I bought on ST's glowing review...
When I began to listen, I quickly realized my mistake because this thing is IMHO a piece of c--p.
Ok, so let's hear what other pieces of gear we should consider staying away from

 

[DonH50]

Well, not mine but... Back when I was actually piddling with this stuff for a living (partly, along with another job or two and gigging when I could), I was a tech/installer for a high-end stereo shop. The owner was always bringing in new gear for all to check out. Well, one day I walked in and he waved me over to the big listening room. I walked in and almost immediately said "What the &^%# is that?!?" The sound coming out of our 801's was horrible! He switched to a pair of Magnepans and it got slightly better, more like a higher grade of horrible. After asking what the heck was playing, he pointed to a Krell amp on the floor. I went over to check it out and it was barely warm. I told him it was broken, obviously under-biased. He started laughing again and pulled me off to the side where a new Carver Cube sat. He tried it on me several times over the next couple of weeks and I picked it out instantly every time. No Cubes for me.

For me personally, probably my worst let-down was from a Phase 700 I horse-traded for after lusting after its mighty power. Lust never turned to love and I was glad to see it go. If you've ever owned one, you know what I mean; if not, be glad.

Most recently, my Pioneer SC-27 that I bought on the advice of a friend has me frustrated. While it does many things very well, having only nine EQ bands and three limited PEQ bands is very frustrating. So much promise, and yet just not quite enough to actually smooth out the response even after manual tweaking... I am thinking of demoting it to the family room and picking up an Integra with Audyssey.

Ah, the audiophile life... - Don

 

[Steve Williams]

Should this thread be moved to General Audio Discussion? I can't see why it should be in Ethan's forum.

 

[Ron Party]

Should this thread be moved to General Audio Discussion? I can't see why it should be in Ethan's forum.

I thought the same when I first read the OP. I suggest you move it.

 

[JackD201]

Many years ago I bought Maggie 1.6QRs after a very brief audition at the showroom where I was impressed. When my speakers got set up in the room I bought them for, it was just terrible. After a few days I gave up and moved them and their amp to our family room/ HT. Lo and behold, they were great in that room. I still needed speakers for what was to be my dedicated listening room though. So in that regard they were a bust.

I kept the 1.6QRs for a good and happy four years until a friend, who I could not refuse, asked to buy them off of me.

 

[Gregadd]

Many years ago I bought Maggie 1.6QRs after a very brief audition at the showroom where I was impressed. When my speakers got set up in the room I bought them for, it was just terrible. After a few days I gave up and moved them and their amp to our family room/ HT. Lo and behold, they were great in that room. I still needed speakers for what was to be my dedicated listening room though. So in that regard they were a bust.

I kept the 1.6QRs for a good and happy four years until a friend, who I could not refuse, asked to buy them off of me.

Dipoles can be room/placement sensitive.

 

[JackD201]

As indeed I learned firsthand. A speaker is only as good as where you put it IMO.

 

[DonH50]

Yeah, especially if the speaker is lecturing at a Shriner's or Rotary convention... Sometimes the W.C. is the best place.

I have lived with dipoles and their quirks for ages and it is almost impossible to get good sound without decent room treatment, and takes some fiddling even then. I stick with them because they are magic when you finally get it right, at least for me. - Don

 

[flez007]

During my quest for a great passive preamp I sold ( still kicking myself for doing it ) a First Sound Passive preamp for a Pass active design. I had a Pass x250 by that time so I thought it would be a great match... The rest is story.. I exchanged various mails with Nelson ( always open to help and even offered me to check the preamp ) but finnaly sold it to another guy who still keeps it and loves it... Go figure...

 

[MylesBAstor]

In no particular order:

Hafler DH500, modded or unmodded: unabashed crap. Lamest 500 wpc ever designed into an amplifier. Little Amber 70 (great little amp in its day) and modded Dynaco 70 (within power limits) beat the pants off the Hafler. Next to no dynamics and the worst example of solid-state design. Don't know what happened between the release of the DH200 and 500.

Adcom GFA1A amplifier: Awful amp. designed in a bridged mode, overheated and always shut down driving DQ10s. Gave to a friend with some 8 ohm Pioneer speakers.

Berning EA2100 amplifier: Maybe it was the speakers but I doubt it. Did not cut it on MG3as. No bass on the Maggies. No dynamics.

Early Straight Wire ribbon speaker cables: Possibly the worst speaker cable ever heard. No bass. Thin. Harsh. Grainy. Didn't last in system too long!

Unison 28 wpc amps: OK, I knew they wouldn't work on the Maggies but the importer insisted they would. I knew better. Were constantly clipping.

Shure V15, type V: Yeah it could track at 1 gram but any resemblance between music and this cartridge were purely coincidental. No top end. Boomy, ill defined bass. Flat soundstage.

First Sony CDP101: Unlistenable.

Shostakovitch 5th with Bernstein on CBS: Early totally unlistenable LP. In fact the total absence of any harmonics caused me to have to check that the record was spinning at the right speed. It was

 

[DaveyF]

Miles, LOL I had the same experience as you with the Hafler 500 and the Straight Wire ribbon speaker cables.. Utter trash!
I thought with the Straight Wire that I must have broken something else in the system as my dealer at the time was assuring me that the cables were the cat's meow...didn't get a clue until he confessed that he needed to wear a hearing aid to listen to music

 

[DonH50]

The DH-500 was a fairly good 100 W amp. The only mod I saw/heard that actually gave it some beef in the bottom end was a huge outboard capacitor array a friend built. The cap box was bigger than the amp...

 

[garylkoh]

The DH-500 was a fairly good 100 W amp. The only mod I saw/heard that actually gave it some beef in the bottom end was a huge outboard capacitor array a friend built. The cap box was bigger than the amp...

Smart friend! A capacitor array is the way to go. I find most amps quiet decent - it's the power supply that suck.

It is easy to calculate the speed of a capacitor. Assuming that music needs up to infinite speed (tracking a square wave), the speed of a capacitor can be determined by its internal time constant, which is proportional to the capacitance multiplied by the internal resistance (assuming discharge into a short circuit). So, the larger the capacitor, the slower it will be.

Here's a primer on capacitors:
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm

If your friend built a capacitor array with a ladder of capacitors - big ones for large storage, small ones for speed, it very well might have made the DH-500 sound absolutely fantastic!

 

[MylesBAstor]

Smart friend! A capacitor array is the way to go. I find most amps quiet decent - it's the power supply that suck.

It is easy to calculate the speed of a capacitor. Assuming that music needs up to infinite speed (tracking a square wave), the speed of a capacitor can be determined by its internal time constant, which is proportional to the capacitance multiplied by the internal resistance (assuming discharge into a short circuit). So, the larger the capacitor, the slower it will be.

Here's a primer on capacitors:
http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/capacit.htm

If your friend built a capacitor array with a ladder of capacitors - big ones for large storage, small ones for speed, it very well might have made the DH-500 sound absolutely fantastic!

Gary:

Doubt even a cap bank could make a silk purse out of a sows ear There were other problem that weren't cap related.

Oh and the other amp that I thought was one of the most overrated amps of its day was the Accoustat TNT200. Had a friend who had 1+1 who was shopping for an amp. Suggested to him to pick up the Accoustat amp (since he had entre to a dealer where he could borrow gear from) since what could be better than driving 1+1s with an Accoustat amp? Wrong! No dynamics. Thin as ice. Yuuuch.

 

[DonH50]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the primer, I'll get to it later and add it to my pile – I like collecting information, just need more brain cells to keep track of it all! I have several cap primers around, and for insights into very broadband caps and a look at things like dielectric absorption, dispersion, self-resonance and such I suggest grabbing an ATC (American Technical Ceramics) data book. In my world, series resistance is not usually the issue; it's the inductance in the leads and other characteristics of the capacitors that cause problems. Plus, too many caps in parallel lead to all sorts of weird resonances. I use a network analyzer and lots of analysis and measurement large- and small-signal in frequency and time domains to design, test and characterize a (de)coupling network. To me, audio seems easy, but cost-saving measures ensure most stock commercial audio gear could use some help in that area (among others).

As for the Hafler, I helped him with the design and build, and IIRC it was a fairly typical broadband decoupling scheme with big electrolytics, small tantalums, then films in a couple of values. I seem to recall five caps in parallel, or four more across each big one, and about a dozen big ones. We used some heavy (2 oz) PCBs to create a nice power/ground plane and bundles of 12 AWG wire to connect to the Hafler. It really helped, but as Myles said that was not all the problem with that amp...

Onwards - Don

 

[garylkoh]

As for the Hafler, I helped him with the design and build, and IIRC it was a fairly typical broadband decoupling scheme with big electrolytics, small tantalums, then films in a couple of values. I seem to recall five caps in parallel, or four more across each big one, and about a dozen big ones. We used some heavy (2 oz) PCBs to create a nice power/ground plane and bundles of 12 AWG wire to connect to the Hafler. It really helped, but as Myles said that was not all the problem with that amp...

Nice! Great minds think alike. Here's what mine looks like:

 

[DonH50]

Much nicer than the homebrew we did 25+ years ago... I think I hate you. But, we used more caps, ha!

 

[garylkoh]

I think I hate you.

You'll have to say that to my face at RMAF for that to be valid

The two biggest ones there are 38,000uF each.

 

[DonH50]

LOL -- wish I could! I was planning to be there, but have a concert that weekend so the timing is bad. I am working to reschedule our Saturday plans so I can come up for a while if just to harrass...

I don't recall the values we used but it was in that ballpark for the large ones (I recall 45k uF). I am pretty sure there were 12 big ones, then each was bypassed with progressively smaller ones, plus some additional ones at the connector, and of course whatever was in the amp (plus additional smaller ones inside, too). I don't recall adding chokes; good idea! I made a lot of other tweaks inside the amp and it actually ended up being a decent sounding amp despite the fact that I continually felt like I was polishing a turd...

 

[garylkoh]

I made a lot of other tweaks inside the amp and it actually ended up being a decent sounding amp despite the fact that I continually felt like I was polishing a turd...

I guess as Myles said, it's difficult making a silk purse out of a sow's ears.

The worst let down I had out of a new piece of gear was times two. Before I got into the business, my dealer persuaded me to get a pair of Sunfire True Subwoofers to augment the bass of a pair of MG3.1's because they wouldn't do big orchestral works. I had to turn the gain down until I couldn't feel the drivers vibrate before it sounded close to right.