Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[microstrip]

IMO one basic problem of this thread is that it wants to ignore the basics.

"There is a common misconception that the addition of stereophonic sound-reproduction was the necessary, correct step in perfecting monophonic recording. It is believed that, because we hear with two ears, sound should be recorded with two microphones if it is to sound natural. It is also believed that stereophony exists as a natural, scientific phenomenon. Neither belief is correct. The attempt to reproduce the way sound is heard by means of stereophonic sound reproduction is a misunderstanding that is the result of a fault in logic. Since recording is a duplication of sounds, only the sounds can be duplicated, not the manner in which they are heard. The introduction of stereophony and its universal acceptance has had the unfortunate effect of slowing progress in the improvement of recorded sound quality and keeping the general level of musical experience substantially below that which is truly possible, both through recordings and in live performance."

From STEREO: A MISUNDERSTANDING - THE THEORY, SOUND-SYSTEMS, AND PROBLEMS OF HEARING
http://www.anstendig.org/Stereo.html

In fact, it is just wordy way of telling that real sound creates a sound field and stereo does not create a sound field.

 

[tima]

Imagine JR supplementing his instruction videos with actual audio videos demonstrating how proper or improved alignment improves the sound of his system. A video would easily confirm his lessons, as long as he confirms that the video correlates to what he writes and hears. This would be an invaluable demonstration of his services, in my opinion.

Same with Michael Framer and his 92 degrees. Fremer writes a lot about record cleaning machines and different vinyl pressings. Imagine if he supplemented these written opinions with videos that actually provide evidence of that which he is trying to convince his readers.

The 92 degrees comes from work done by Jon Risch and Bruce Maier in 1981. Wally Malewicz and John Ellison (sp?)refined it. Most of what F writes about cartridge setup he is parroting from Wally. JR was Wally's assistant. The correlation with any numeric SRA is subjective and relative to a cartridge. Yes, videos trying to establish any particular numeric SRA as optimal for sound would be very interesting. F knows about pressings but not so much about cleaning and RCMs.

Wrt reviewers using videos to supplement a written review ... I have thought about doing this and think there may be some positives to it. I am tempted to ask my publisher what he thinks of the idea. But I'm also sceptical for several reasons: There is so much variability in video playback methods and equipment. There is the digitization of analog to make a recording. There is a you tube factor of homogenizing.

 

[tima]

Do any of us here have the expertise to answer that question?

Yes -- most of us do. We each answer for ourselves.

Does the notion of better equipment come from better sound or greater expense?

 

[microstrip]

The 92 degrees comes from work done by Jon Risch and Bruce Maier in 1981. Wally Malewicz and John Ellison (sp?)refined it. Most of what F writes about cartridge setup he is parroting from Wally. JR was Wally's assistant. The correlation with any numeric SRA is subjective and relative to a cartridge. Yes, videos trying to establish any particular numeric SRA as optimal for sound would be very interesting. F knows about pressings but not so much about cleaning and RCMs.

Wrt reviewers using videos to supplement a written review ... I have thought about doing this and think there may be some positives to it. I am tempted to ask my publisher what he thinks of the idea. But I'm also sceptical for several reasons: There is so much variability in video playback methods and equipment. There is the digitization of analog to make a recording. There is a you tube factor of homogenizing.

Relevant work on SRA/VTA was carried much before these studies. As far as I remember, Wireless World had articles and analysis of it in the 60's, IEC and British standards of that period had recommendations for it. Manufacturers of cartridges and stylus surely also researched and published on the subject and have recommendations on it.

An optimum value for SRA is far from being an accepted truth - there were many studies reaching different conclusions and many people consider it as a secondary aspect. Surely due to popularity of audio magazines the referred articles published in the Audio magazine and Analog Planet site are extremely popular. Although long ago I enjoyed the subject I have now settled with the 92 degree for peace of mind ...

An interesting page http://www7a.biglobe.ne.jp/~yosh/vta.htm

If I had infinite time for this hobby I would love to play with AnalogMagik.

 

[hopkins]

Yes -- most of us do. We each answer for ourselves.

Does the notion of better equipment come from better sound or greater expense?

I am not sure our experience and the convictions we have concerning speaker systems necessarily apply to recording systems.

But let’s just be very pragmatic about this - do you listen to albums that were recorded with iphones? No.

 

[PeterA]

Do any of us here have the expertise to answer that question?

Yes indeed. Each of us uses our senses and our ability to reason to reach our own conclusions. If the question is what sounds better, we use our ears to listen and rely on our experience to judgme and to answer that question for ourselves.

 

[PeterA]

As usual you just read one third of the posts, ignoring the more relevant part of the debate.

You can call this thread a debate if you want. I think of it as a discussion about an interesting topic. We each choose to discuss what we find relevant and are interested in discussing. I have read the entire thread. There are many different subjects under discussion. We may not agree on what is most relevant. But you’re not going to dictate to me what should be relevant to me.

 

[Rexp]

This video shows little difference between vinyl and digital playback, which could be due to an iphone being used as the recording device:

 

[Scott Naylor]

This video shows little difference between vinyl and digital playback, which could be due to an iphone being used as the recording device:

There's quite a bit of difference from a musical communication standpoint. The digital is fractured rhythmically, lacking a sense of phrasing moving the music forward in comparison to the analog replay. Yes, sonically very similar though. iPhones DO excel at speech intelligibility, and rhythmic clarity is a huge part of that.

 

[Rensselaer]

This video shows little difference between vinyl and digital playback, which could be due to an iphone being used as the recording device:

Or could be due to the LP and the CD both being cut from the same digital master?

 

[bonzo75]

Or could be due to the LP and the CD both being cut from the same digital master?

that video is pointless. While you could do such a compare of the same track to academically extract the difference of the medium (which I have done using the same digitally mastered LP and comparing to digital files from Dac that was used to master) the point of owning analog air from gear rolling, is to get the sonic advantage of playing recordings made for analog. Digital shuold be used to play recordings made for digital, or for convenience and exploration.

That aside, the guy is using a TT relatively low priced to his cartridge. The value to sonics ratio is balanced though lol…the Nottingham is a high value TT while the blue lace is a low value cartridge. Plus the ikeda is not the optimal arm for it.

The track chosen for the compare of the playback is worse than music nuda

 

[Rexp]

Or could be due to the LP and the CD both being cut from the same digital master?

True but that's not always the case. I still expected a bigger delta, although neither rendition sounds great so maybe the video is representative of the in-room sound. Oh dear...

 

[hopkins]

A phone video of my Altec 408A drivers which I just set up in a cabinet I had made based on the Silbatone model, but with thicker wood. I like the results (so does my girlfriend!). The speakers have not yet been played much.

Those drivers have a slight hump between 2-5kHz, so I applied a little EQ (active filtering in the playback, no tampering with the video itself) - will need to refine this.

Nice little speakers, which I plan to setup in the room I use as a home office. Here I recorded them in my living room without any attention to proper placement.

Diana Krall, sorry, I did this for friends who know this track well.

I'll take some videos with my better mics at some point. One of the XLR jacks is stuck in the recorder, and there is static, so I need to get it fixed.

Measurement of one speaker before EQ:


After EQ:


The EQ tames a slight brightness in that range without compromising the overall sound.

Work in progress, as always.

 

[Rensselaer]

True but that's not always the case. I still expected a bigger delta, although neither rendition sounds great so maybe the video is representative of the in-room sound. Oh dear...

Room effects would be the same for both recordings as both videoed in the same room.

The master digital- file converted to analogue by DAC at record company before cutting to vinyl, but the digital-file, being recorded as digital bitstream to CD, must be converted to analogue with the video-maker’s DAC, which means any difference perceived in the video must indicate differences in digital-to-analogue devices.

 

[PeterA]

You make yourself look stupid, small and a wanker. Of course you'd call my post calling out your offensive use of the word "parroted" a "tantrum". Everything YOU post is a tantrum. You have nothing else to offer but passive aggressive tantrums. I learned from Wally. Smart people learn from others. You have learned nothing. You are pathetic. But don't think you can post insults and not get called out for it. You don't know what the word eloquence means.

@TrackingAngle , Mikey, you seem to be following Tim’s posts and this thread. What are your thoughts about reviewers using system videos to supplement their written opinions about the gear they evaluate? Do you think your readers would be interested in such content?

 

[Rensselaer]

Try swapping the 6n30p for 6N6p tubes if you haven't tried that.

The Ayon Spitfire uses 6H30, 12AU7 and AA 62B valves. Are one of these the same spec as the 6n30p?

 

[bonzo75]

Do you think your readers would be interested in such content?

This should be directed to readers. Answer is Yes! He does do direct from phono sometimes.

 

[PeterA]

This should be directed to readers. Answer is Yes! He does do direct from phono sometimes.

We have heard from some members that the idea is flawed and full of issues that would only cause confusion. The magazines might decide what to do based on perceived interest of their readers. That is why I asked Mikey the question. The model is shifting away from only print to some web content and video interviews. Show reports are now out there long before they are in the magazines. Surely Mikey has some sense of what his readers want. The growing popularity of YouTube reviewers and videos is certainly worth noting.

I agree with you that the answer is YES, at least for some. Who would not watch such videos after reading a review? Even the well known critics of videos here can not help but watch and comment on members' videos. It will be interesting to see how the whole video subject develops, especially as it becomes harder and harder to hear gear locally.

Not discussed much yet is the number of people who enjoy watching and commenting on videos versus the much smaller number of people who actually record their systems and share them.

I commend Mikey for making that recent video capturing the sound of his system and actually commenting that he thinks the video is fairly representative of what he hears in the room. That was wonderful.

 

[hopkins]

I commend Mikey for making that recent video capturing the sound of his system and actually commenting that he thinks the video is fairly representative of what he hears in the room. That was wonderful.

Which one was that ?

 

[PeterA]

Which one was that ?

Here is the link. "Truely" at about the 33:00 mark.