Top Wing Seiryu arrives at Believe High Fidelity

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
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No less than 35 hrs now on RS.

My second Opus is no more than 15 hrs.
Why two Opus cartridges, Tang? Different arms? From reading your excellent cartridge write ups, I think I would prefer the Opus to your others, though I am curious to learn how the Red Sparrow changes with more break-in and how it sounds on different arm/turntable combinations.

Has anyone with multiple arms on the same table ever tried sacrificing an old LP by breaking in multiple new cartridges at the same time with the volume off? It's a silly idea, especially as it is kind of interesting to hear how a new cartridge changes over time, and to just try to enjoy the process, but I am curious if anyone has tried this.
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Why two Opus cartridges, Tang? Different arms? From reading your excellent cartridge write ups, I think I would prefer the Opus to your others, though I am curious to learn how the Red Sparrow changes with more break-in and how it sounds on different arm/turntable combinations.
Hi Peter,

I bought the second Opus quite a while back. I really like Opus so I bought another one for spare. It is the most grade A all around cart I have. In case I want to cut out all variables to compare tts I can do so if I have two same carts. Also two same arms. And it is my hobby to truely find out how tts I am interested in really sound. I am warming it up for AS.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Yesterday, I didn’t have any meeting so I kept listening to the RS. I have a bad back so I don’t like to switch things behind my components so much. But Boonyarat delivered me the Airtight step-up trans to use with mm input of my EMT phono, so I made best use of my back switch the RS from Ayon Phono to EMT phono too. These two are excellent sounding tube phono. The result is no different from when RS was on the Ayon.

And no. I didn’t put any more variable into the chain. I didn’t put RS into Airtight step up. The RS was put in one of the mc inputs next to the AtlasSL. I put the MSL Plat into the Airtight step up. Interestingly, the sound of MSL becomes even more beautiful sounding in the mids and high while loosing some micro dynamic and some instruments are pushed back in the scene a little. A lot more different than Opus1 now. When I have time to analyze and can spare my back for switching in/out of step up, I will write my finding in Peter’s MSL thread.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,587
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38
Sydney
Hi Shane,

Sorry I thought I already answered your question yesterday. I used my mobile to answer you yesterday. But I guess it didn’t go through.

I don’t like putting any restrictors on my Ayon phono. I tried trstrictors but guess what.. I felt it restricted my sound...hehe :D. It is like Lamm LP1 that has no loading adjustment.

Kind regards,
Tang
Hi Tang

You still haven't told us what impedance you load the cartridges at? ;) Is the Ayon running at 47k or what the SUT is loaded at?
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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Hi Tang

You still haven't told us what impedance you load the cartridges at? ;) Is the Ayon running at 47k or what the SUT is loaded at?
Hi Shane,

I didn’t answer because I don’t know. My Ayon Phono is a custom one and I never asked the designer. It works well with all my carts so far. The normal Ayon Spheris has ~300 ohms.

The Airtight SUT is connected to the mm input of EMT phono with 47K. It has two selectable inputs. One for cart with 0.6-7 Ohm which is what I use with my MSL. The other is for cart with 7 - 40 Ohm. I understand the RS impedance is 12.3.

Tang
 
Nov 19, 2015
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Hi Shane,

I didn’t answer because I don’t know. My Ayon Phono is a custom one and I never asked the designer. It works well with all my carts so far. The normal Ayon Spheris has ~300 ohms.

The Airtight SUT is connected to the mm input of EMT phono with 47K. It has two selectable inputs. One for cart with 0.6-7 Ohm which is what I use with my MSL. The other is for cart with 7 - 40 Ohm. I understand the RS impedance is 12.3.

Tang
Here I was thinking that you were giving a comprehensive review of the RS....disappointing.

Spent some time against the Opus today on Billy's system (been spending a lot of time there lately) with the Primary Control Kinea. The one clear difference is that there is a HUGE difference in the loading between the two. Impedance matching is essential to optimize for the cartridge, not the phonostage. Cartridges are electro-mechanical and while the manufacturer may not publish the recommended impedance (due to very different Phono stages) you must ALWAYS load it properly to get the best sound.

Billy and I both much preferred the RS on the Kinea with the Primary Control Reference 9in. The Transrotor was on its special dedicated stand for the A/B of the two TT systems using the Graham Phantom Elite and Air Tight Opus. A little unfair though because we did not have loading pins for the under 500 ohms for the Opus and as mentioned it like to be loaded closer to 100 for best sound

PANA2777.jpg

PANA2778.jpg

PANA2784.jpg

PANA2797.jpg

Talos presentation was very surreal. Hard to describe until I have more time to understand this phenomenon.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,956
40
48
North Shore of Boston
Here I was thinking that you were giving a comprehensive review of the RS....disappointing.

Spent some time against the Opus today on Billy's system (been spending a lot of time there lately) with the Primary Control Kinea. The one clear difference is that there is a HUGE difference in the loading between the two. Impedance matching is essential to optimize for the cartridge, not the phonostage. Cartridges are electro-mechanical and while the manufacturer may not publish the recommended impedance (due to very different Phono stages) you must ALWAYS load it properly to get the best sound.

Billy and I both much preferred the RS on the Kinea with the Primary Control Reference 9in. The Transrotor was on its special dedicated stand for the A/B of the two TT systems using the Graham Phantom Elite and Air Tight Opus. A little unfair though because we did not have loading pins for the under 500 ohms for the Opus and as mentioned it like to be loaded closer to 100 for best sound

Talos presentation was very surreal. Hard to describe until I have more time to understand this phenomenon.
From the photographs, it looks like you compared the Opus to the RS using different arms and tables? Or did you switch the cartridges around? I would find if very difficult to reach any conclusions about the differences between the cartridges without a direct comparison of each contridge in the same arm/table/cable/phono combination.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
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From the photographs, it looks like you compared the Opus to the RS using different arms and tables? Or did you switch the cartridges around? I would find if very difficult to reach any conclusions about the differences between the cartridges without a direct comparison of each contridge in the same arm/table/cable/phono combination.
Hi Peter,

It is always good to hear comparisons report from another person regardless of tt and arms. I also wish to know the kind of setup that makes this RS sings at its best so I can correct my inappropriate setup.

Kind regards,
Tang
 
Last edited:

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
4,956
40
48
North Shore of Boston
Hi Peter,

It is always good to hear comparisons report from another person regardless of tt and arms. I also wish to know the kind of setup that makes this RS sings as it’s best so I can correct my inappropriate setup.

Kind regards,
Tang
I agree Tang. I am just saying that a comparison between different components is less helpful to me if the context in which they are compared is different. These impressions are really about comparisons of vinyl source mini systems, not of particular cartridges.
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,495
23
38
Utah
Has anyone with multiple arms on the same table ever tried sacrificing an old LP by breaking in multiple new cartridges at the same time with the volume off? It's a silly idea, especially as it is kind of interesting to hear how a new cartridge changes over time, and to just try to enjoy the process, but I am curious if anyone has tried this.
Often, nothing silly about it.
david
 

XV-1

Active Member
May 24, 2010
1,587
13
38
Sydney
Hi Shane,

I didn’t answer because I don’t know. My Ayon Phono is a custom one and I never asked the designer. It works well with all my carts so far. The normal Ayon Spheris has ~300 ohms.

The Airtight SUT is connected to the mm input of EMT phono with 47K. It has two selectable inputs. One for cart with 0.6-7 Ohm which is what I use with my MSL. The other is for cart with 7 - 40 Ohm. I understand the RS impedance is 12.3.

Tang
Oh I see - I am sure your system sounds great regardless. I thought the Ayon would have had multiple loading. Understand the SUT situation as getting them to perfectly interface with different cartridges sometimes seems like a dark art. Lucky you have a choice of a few.

cheers
 
Nov 19, 2015
1,043
1
38
Hutto TX
ibelieveinhifi.com
Whoa I see a shun Mook clamp.
Not weighty enough, but I guess it doesn't have to be since its suction to the platter feature is pretty good
 
Nov 19, 2015
1,043
1
38
Hutto TX
ibelieveinhifi.com
From the photographs, it looks like you compared the Opus to the RS using different arms and tables? Or did you switch the cartridges around? I would find if very difficult to reach any conclusions about the differences between the cartridges without a direct comparison of each contridge in the same arm/table/cable/phono combination.
Wasn't looking to reach any definitive conclusions about anything and as mentioned before there will always be traits/virtues of any top cart more desirable to some more than others.

What I was trying to specifically accomplish here (you are correct two diff tables and arms and carts) was to establish that the Primary Control Kinea and Arm at half the cost would be on par or better sounding than the Trans/Graham/Opus combo. That was a big success for me and this table is an understated masterpiece. Even the Aesthetics are very impressive in person, just not really understood in pictures.

Now all the fun with cart swaps and different tonearms will happen when DDK comes to setup the AS-2000 which I hope isnt too far away. You will notice that there are no mounting points on the Kinea or Transrotor for multiple arms, but there is 4 on the AS-2000.

So once the table is installed and dialed in I will be swapping carts, arms, you name it. Will probably order the 32k FCL Tonearm to use on this table as well.
 
Nov 19, 2015
1,043
1
38
Hutto TX
ibelieveinhifi.com
Another area for improvement is to use the ACSUT (Aries Cerat Step Up Trans) 1-B's.




PANA2768.jpg


With this high gain SS amp being used right now it is too much gain in the system, but I have used these SUT's in my own system and they really add some dimension to the sound. So when the AC Legend amps get finished will likely be a permanent fixture in the system to round it all out
 

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
3,495
23
38
Utah
Wasn't looking to reach any definitive conclusions about anything and as mentioned before there will always be traits/virtues of any top cart more desirable to some more than others.

What I was trying to specifically accomplish here (you are correct two diff tables and arms and carts) was to establish that the Primary Control Kinea and Arm at half the cost would be on par or better sounding than the Trans/Graham/Opus combo. That was a big success for me and this table is an understated masterpiece. Even the Aesthetics are very impressive in person, just not really understood in pictures.

Now all the fun with cart swaps and different tonearms will happen when DDK comes to setup the AS-2000 which I hope isnt too far away. You will notice that there are no mounting points on the Kinea or Transrotor for multiple arms, but there is 4 on the AS-2000.

So once the table is installed and dialed in I will be swapping carts, arms, you name it. Will probably order the 32k FCL Tonearm to use on this table as well.
Around the beginning of next month brother.

david
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
6,420
70
48
E. England
Joshua, I’ve been in a little direct contact w Berndt, the designer of Primary Control re the Kinea DD tt, but didn’t follow up things since I decided instead to trick out my current rim drive tt.

However, I was highly impressed with what I heard, and in different circumstances his tt and arm would be right on my radar.
 

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