Top Wing Blue Dragon (Seiryu) Impressions

bazelio

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I was lucky to be able to obtain a Top Wing Blue Dragon (Seiryu) cartridge for short term demo recently. Here are my initial notes after installing and spending several hours listening. I also hope to see others post impressions as well.

The Blue Dragon is mounted to my 11" Kuzma 4-point arm that has been upgraded with sapphire pivots and rewired with Kondo cable.



I aligned to Lofgren B and set tracking force to 1.9g, which is center-high in the recommended 1.75g - 2.0g range. Other parameters such as azimuth and SRA were adjusted by ear, with anti-skate in the middle of its adjustable range.

During alignment, I noted that this demo cart probably has a compromised suspension. The cantilever is visibly askew. I was able to compensate and get things very close, though if this were a newly purchased cart, it'd be rejected. I don't know what kind of prior (ab)use this one has seen, but I hope this isn't a sign of any lack of mechanical robustness.



The above photo shows the cantilever prior to my compensating adjustments. After aligning the cart and some rough by-ear tweaking, I pulled several LPs to begin real listening. By default, I like to use the Kuzma periphery ring on my Stabi M platter, even with flat records, but I noticed that the Blue Dragon was riding too low. The body of the cartridge actually rests on the lip of the periphery ring when the stylus is in the lead-in groove and well into the first track on the LP. I do hope this is abnormal, and maybe a symptom of the suspected suspension issue. But for this demo, I either can not use the periphery ring or I can not listen to the first track of LPs. Ugh.



Either way, on to listening. A very important (IMO) feature of my Emia phono is that the input loading is not the standard 47k MM load. Instead, it's 270k in order to make SUT compatibility with almost any cart possible. Knowing I'd be trying out the Top Wing, I asked Dave Slagle for a loaner SUT with higher winding impedance and lower turns ratio than what I currently use with my Transfiguration Proteus. Dave, being awesome, kindly obliged. And I still believe, more so after experimentation, that this cart has a higher inductance than MC carts, meaning that the final load impedance value it sees needs to be higher than usual. This bears out with my listening notes. Using a 1:20 5 Ohm SUT, the cart was lean at the bottom end. It also seemed to lack snap and swing. This SUT has a winding impedance that is too low for the Top Wing, and reflects 675 ohms to the cart. However, the story changed after switching to the 1:15 40 ohm silver SUT that Dave loaned to me. Now the cart sees a 1200 ohm load impedance and a winding impedance that is a better match to its internal impedance. And with this, the bass filled out and the overall sound had swagger.

I've gone through various LPs now from jazz, rock, girl-with-guitar, direct to disc piano, folk and more, and I think the character of the Blue Dragon is clear. It has a presentation that extends behind the speakers, placing the listener further from the performance than most other carts. Its depth is quite remarkable. And at the same time, the Blue Dragon extracts a lot of detail. Sitting further from the music while hearing more detail is odd at first. But it does exceed my Proteus in the detail extraction department, and it does so in a smooth and refined, non-fatiguing manner which becomes really addicting. It makes you want to increase the volume. However, if you're looking for a presentation that envelopes the listener, then this cart isn't it. Still, it certainly does create a wide and tall soundstage with grand scale. I was listening to a few records with my dog, who listens to music fairly attentively. ;-) And when a cymbal crash would occur, he'd look quickly up near the ceiling trying to find the source of the sound. Musicality is spot on. It's not a cart that accentuates mid bass, nor treble. It just seems even handed across the spectrum. Not much added nor subtracted, and not dry nor wet. In terms of dynamics, I will say I do find it a bit reserved. Not disappointingly so, but it's not a cart that slams and shimmers. I've seen it described as a fast cart. I'd say it's reasonably fast, and definitely not rounded. But it's not the fastest, snappiest cart I've heard, either. My Proteus has it beat there. Even so, I kept thinking the Blue Dragon sounded a bit more natural, erring less on the impress-your-friends side of things. And the Blue Dragon's handling of complexity (e.g. Mingus) is excellent. Things never get muddy, undefined, nor homogenized. Image placement in all three dimensions is very precise.

Overall, I do think this is a very good cartridge. Its presentation is very much to my liking and its strengths are quite unique. The keywords here are effortless and refined. I know I'm going to be unhappy when I return it.
 
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Solypsa

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Respect for taking the time to match it with the right sut/load. Some folks would just plug it into what they have (and if not a good match) and then report 'anemic bass.' ;)
 

Cala

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My company played the first Top Wing Red Dragon cartridge to Rocky Mountain Audio Fest a few years ago. We also had a few samples/prototypes and they all exhibited the same symptom of what you describe as follow :
During alignment, I noted that this demo cart probably has a compromised suspension. The cantilever is visibly askew. I was able to compensate and get things very close, though if this were a newly purchased cart, it'd be rejected. I don't know what kind of prior (ab)use this one has seen, but I hope this isn't a sign of any lack of mechanical robustness.

This happens when the cartridge has been stocked on the side. The damper used with the Top Wing cartridges is silicon based and very very soft so it alters easily . This applies also with wrong geometry applied, non properly set turntable levels, etc...

If not too severely bent (or banged) the cantilever should get back in original place once the cartridge is resting in a "normal" position.
 
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bazelio

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Thanks, @Cala . However, I did have the cart resting in a normal position (albeit upside down) in the box for three days before getting around to installation. So. I'm not sure. It actually looks like it has previously been used without anti-skate, causing the cantilever to get pulled off center. But again, I'm not sure. I think before returning the cartridge, I'll re-check its alignment to see if it has changed.
 
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Tango

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The askew cantilever looks familiar. Your description on sound seems to resemble how I described the red one.

Tang :)
 

bazelio

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Next will be a compare against the Red Sparrow. I'm just not sure if I will be able to do it at home, or if it'll need to be in my friend's system.

PS - my description changes a bit after playing with SRA yesterday. More extension, more snap than previously.

PSS - I played Max Richter Mercy direct to disc and the violin bites and sounds realistic, but I'm not quite getting the piano cabinet resonance that I think I hear in @Tango 's recording with the Master Sig.
 
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bazelio

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Some updates, about one week in.

(1) This cart is very sensitive to VTA. I found the best bass, unintuitively, as I raised the tonearm. And at some point, there is an undeniable VTA sweet spot where focus is locked in, and the agility of this cart is maximized. Macro and micro dynamics are now improved, and the areas where I'm still a bit unsure with this cart are mid bass fullness and overall bass slam. Quite honestly I'm struggling however to decide whether my Proteus is a bit warm in the mid bass region or if the Blue Dragon is a bit lean. On the one hand, I do feel the Blue Dragon does lack ultimate slam down low. On the other hand, Blue Dragon is providing more record to record variation in bass and mid-bass, which probably means it is more accurate. Thus my confusion.

(2) In talking with Top Wing, it turns out there is no difference in the power generation systems or parts (stylus, coil, etc) between Blue Dragon and Red Sparrow. Differences between these carts are limited to the body material only: aluminum vs carbon fiber, with Red Sparrow having lower mass. While they don't publish specific compliance information, they did tell me that my 18g 4-point arm would be fine with either cart from a resonance frequency perspective, with the lighter Red Sparrow being slightly better. The difference in their sound, then, is entirely limited to the body materials and tonearm compatibility. I'm interested to hear the red one now for sure.
 
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bonzo75

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Next will be a compare against the Red Sparrow. I'm just not sure if I will be able to do it at home, or if it'll need to be in my friend's system.

PS - my description changes a bit after playing with SRA yesterday. More extension, more snap than previously.

PSS - I played Max Richter Mercy direct to disc and the violin bites and sounds realistic, but I'm not quite getting the piano cabinet resonance that I think I hear in @Tango 's recording with the Master Sig.

Piano cabinet resonance on his various records, apart from the system is also a factor of the records he is playing
 

bazelio

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Piano cabinet resonance on his various records, apart from the system is also a factor of the records he is playing
That's why I played the same record and tried to extract some of the tonal differences. Severely flawed for all the reasons @Al M. is right about, which is why I said "what I *think* I hear."
 

bonzo75

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That's why I played the same record and tried to extract some of the tonal differences. Severely flawed for all the reasons @Al M. is right about, which is why I said "what I *think* I hear."

He does get a lot of resonance though I would avoided listening to the Richter when I was at his place since I don't rate it. If you managed to pick that up in a video which Iirc he posted when he had the Ayon, kudos to you in proving Al M wrong (though that is not AC difficult)
 

bazelio

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I picked up a Beethoven Emperor, Rubenstein white dog label original, factory sealed. Red Sparrow arrives next week for comparison, and Top Wing thinks it will probably be a better match for my tonearm. Yet as it stands now, I've probably not heard my system sounding better to date all told. So, if the Red Sparrow brings out a bit more mid bass and below and retains most of what the Blue Dragon does so well, then I think we'll have a winner.

Friday Night In San Francisco blew me away this evening.
 

bazelio

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The red sparrow has landed. This cart also rides too low to make use of the Kuzma periphery ring. Listening impressions to follow.

IMG_20190914_102638.jpg
 
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audioblazer

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The red sparrow has landed. This cart also rides too low to make use of the Kuzma periphery ring. Listening impressions to follow.

View attachment 56993
Hi what was the difference btw Red Sparrow & Blue Dragon ? any idea whats the compliance of Blue Dragon
 

Argonaut

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They don't publish the compliance. The Red Sparrow had a magic that the Blue one didn't have... At least in the two systems I tried it: mine and a friend's.
If you are still running with the Red Sparrow ? I for one would be most interested in your listener sessions considerations perhaps in the same vein as your thoughts upon the Dragon , as per your OP.
 

bazelio

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If you are still running with the Red Sparrow ? I for one would be most interested in your listener sessions considerations perhaps in the same vein as your thoughts upon the Dragon , as per your OP.
I'm not, but the Red Sparrow was one of those experiences that you can't unhear. I went with the Opus 1 instead, but I still want to add a Red Sparrow to the mix at some point.

One thing to realize with Red Sparrow and Blue Dragon is they're the same cartridge internally, with only the outer body being different. That's pretty fascinating when you consider how different they do sound. I preferred the Red Sparrow by quite a bit.
 
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Solypsa

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One thing to realize with Red Sparrow and Blue Dragon is they're the same cartridge internally, with only the outer body being different. That's pretty fascinating when you consider how different they do sound. I preferred the Red Sparrow by quite a bit.
+1
I was just visiting Hyun Lee @ Tedeska and he expressed strongly that absolutely everything matters when voicing a cart, to the point that he is hesitant to talk about isolated elements in a "whats best" way, such as cantilevers, where we are trained to think of them as a good better best scenario as opposed to different...
 
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