The ultimate Reiner/CSO Scheherazade in analog

[hvbias]

I am curious what our members thing is the best sounding Reiner/CSO Scheherazade in analog. For me I am going to have to give it to the Ultra Analog tape reissue from Analogue Productions, it's just stunning.

There are many fine versions, I'm not going to name them all just list off the top of my head.

Classic Records 33 rpm
Classic Records 4x 45 rpm
Original/early stamper RCA vinyl
Chesky reissue vinyl (white cover series)
Analogue Productions 33 and 4x 45 rpm (I haven't heard either)
Analogue Productions Ultra Analog tape

 

[ShaneKnightEptick]

There is also the Vinyl Me Please 2X45 RPM

Rimsky-Korsakoff: Scheherazade

Fritz Reiner and the Chicago Symphony convey the listener on a magic carpet of Living Stereo sound to mythic Arabia and China, guided by two of Russia's greatest orchestral masters.

www.vinylmeplease.com

"guided by two of Russia's greatest orchestral masters"

I think they mean Rimsky AND Korsakov hahaha

I have only
1) The Classic Records 33 RPM
2) The Sony/RCA Hybrid SACD from the early oughts - the SACD layer is great, the CD layer is an earlier master for CD

They all are great - but my sample is small, so hesitant to expand...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my 23 year old Classic 4 disc 45rpm Reiner/Scheherazade reissue was better than my copy of the AP Ultra Analog tape (which i sold with full disclosure). were all AP dubs like mine? it's a question.

it's not news that one of my early 45 rpm single sided pressings surpasses a tape. even a pretty good tape.

and disc 2 is my most played demo disc. the 'Gold' standard for truth in my system efforts.

i've heard OP's, and own the Classic 33rpm reissue as well as the later AP 33 reissue too (as i recall (it's been many years) i prefer the Classic 33 to the AP 33). also own the Chesky. none of which enter the realm of my early 4 disc. it's a force of nature. the energy, musical power, and flow of the 4-disc 45 is breathtaking.

every one of these is very good, and not to be looked down upon. no bad choices.

to my ears in my system, over many years. YMMV.

 

[Ovenmitt]

I have the Classic Records 33 and have really loved that one over the years. To my horror I played it a few weeks ago and side two has a horrible scratch on it - how does this stuff happen?!?! So, I bought the new AP 33 and also the 45rpm versions. Both of these are really good.

I agree with Mike that the 45rpm version is king. I just hate having to stop and switch sides though. This is one disk that I really like to put on and listen all the way through.

 

[bonzo75]

I have the Classic Records 33 and have really loved that one over the years. To my horror I played it a few weeks ago and side two has a horrible scratch on it - how does this stuff happen?!?! So, I bought the new AP 33 and also the 45rpm versions. Both of these are really good.

I agree with Mike that the 45rpm version is king. I just hate having to stop and switch sides though. This is one disk that I really like to put on and listen all the way through.

I bought the classic 45 after comparing it to AP 33 at Mike's 4 years ago. I had to wait to find a copy, the classic 45s is hard to come by. I found a mint unopened that stays packed. I use the AP 33 for auditions.

 

[christoph]

I bought the classic 45 after comparing it to AP 33 at Mike's 4 years ago. I had to wait to find a copy, the classic 45s is hard to come by. I found a mint unopened that stays packed. I use the AP 33 for auditions.

Looks like a pattern with you when I look at your signature
Especially the "two pairs of Altec 515B woofers, TAD 4003"
SCNR

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I bought the classic 45 after comparing it to AP 33 at Mike's 4 years ago. I had to wait to find a copy, the classic 45s is hard to come by. I found a mint unopened that stays packed. I use the AP 33 for auditions.

i do recall your reaction from that compare. you came in quite impressed with the entirely fine 33 AP version. the Classic single disc 45 got your complete attention from the first note. that set the tone and away we went.

 

[abeidrov]

I’ve just come across this site: https://ontherecord.co/2022/04/10/scheherazade-on-heavy-vinyl-pass-fail-violin-test/, and the guy is very critical of the most heavy vinyl pressings including Classic Records, Analogue Productions, Speaker Corner etc. Although, he has a list of relatively good pressings by these labels: https://ontherecord.co/category/heavy-vinyl-reviewed/heavy-vinyl-winners/ , he also calls many of them ”disasters”, including the AP pressing of Scheherazade. The list of disaster pressings: https://ontherecord.co/category/heavy-vinyl-reviewed/heavy-vinyl-disasters/

I would agree with him about MoFi pressings and several early RCA Living Stereo Classic Records reissues. They do sound bright and in some cases even shrill. But later Classic records reissues are quite good.. Any thoughts? Is there any merit to his statements?

 

[bonzo75]

I’ve just come across this site: https://ontherecord.co/2022/04/10/scheherazade-on-heavy-vinyl-pass-fail-violin-test/, and the guy is very critical of the most heavy vinyl pressings including Classic Records, Analogue Productions, Speaker Corner etc. Although, he has a list of relatively good pressings by these labels: https://ontherecord.co/category/heavy-vinyl-reviewed/heavy-vinyl-winners/ , he also calls many of them ”disasters”, including the AP pressing of Scheherazade. The list of disaster pressings: https://ontherecord.co/category/heavy-vinyl-reviewed/heavy-vinyl-disasters/

I would agree with him about MoFi pressings and several early RCA Living Stereo Classic Records reissues. They do sound bright and in some cases even shrill. But later Classic records reissues are quite good.. Any thoughts? Is there any merit to his statements?

I have read all of his classical reviews - you can keep googling between him, Salvatore, and others. They are wrong about many, you will know when you listen to the different records. There are too many performances in the different compositions missing from their compares

Classic 45 is the best - the original RCA is better than the Analog Productions, but the quality of the original is not great by standards of old records.

The Reiner classic 45 performance is by far the best and the most dramatic, both as a recording and as a performance. Brass majesty so required for Scheherazade is only in Reiner. Beecham is melodic in the first three movements but recording quality poor after the first press, Markevitch on Philips is nice, but does not take off up a level to match Reiner. I have the Ansermet Decca I don't like it I know the above guy does. The Beecham plays on the Wilson XVX -Dart 468 video on my YT channel. I play Beecham on sound bar at home streaming from mobile, but an audio system deserves the classic 45

 

[wbass]

I’ve just come across this site: https://ontherecord.co/2022/04/10/scheherazade-on-heavy-vinyl-pass-fail-violin-test/, and the guy is very critical of the most heavy vinyl pressings including Classic Records, Analogue Productions, Speaker Corner etc. Although, he has a list of relatively good pressings by these labels: https://ontherecord.co/category/heavy-vinyl-reviewed/heavy-vinyl-winners/ , he also calls many of them ”disasters”, including the AP pressing of Scheherazade. The list of disaster pressings: https://ontherecord.co/category/heavy-vinyl-reviewed/heavy-vinyl-disasters/

I would agree with him about MoFi pressings and several early RCA Living Stereo Classic Records reissues. They do sound bright and in some cases even shrill. But later Classic records reissues are quite good.. Any thoughts? Is there any merit to his statements?

That's another of the several sites that Tom Port (Better Records) runs. There's endless discussion of the merits of his business model on other forums (particularly Steve Hoffman's), and so I won't rehash any of that here. I don't follow or have much interest in classical LPs, but he says similarly outlandish stuff about various jazz re-issues. I used to look at his sites now and then, but even if he's right sometimes (which I'm not in a position to judge, as I'll likely never be a customer of his), I just can't get past the ridiculous hyperbole. And the fact that it's in the service of selling his own stock, which always strikes me as ludicrously overpriced. Anyway, it's all been argued to death elsewhere. Just wanted to point out the connection to Better Records.

 

[abeidrov]

I have read all of his classical reviews - you can keep googling between him, Salvatore, and others. They are wrong about many, you will know when you listen to the different records. There are too many performances in the different compositions missing from their compares

Classic 45 is the best - the original RCA is better than the Analog Productions, but the quality of the original is not great by standards of old records.

The Reiner classic 45 performance is by far the best and the most dramatic, both as a recording and as a performance. Brass majesty so required for Scheherazade is only in Reiner. Beecham is melodic in the first three movements but recording quality poor after the first press, Markevitch on Philips is nice, but does not take off up a level to match Reiner. I have the Ansermet Decca I don't like it I know the above guy does. The Beecham plays on the Wilson XVX -Dart 468 video on my YT channel. I play Beecham on sound bar at home streaming from mobile, but an audio system deserves the classic 45

Have you heard AP 45 version? I wonder how it compares to the classic 45.

 

[bonzo75]

Have you heard AP 45 version? I wonder how it compares to the classic 45.

No i haven’t

 

[tima]

The Reiner classic 45 performance is by far the best and the most dramatic, both as a recording and as a performance. Brass majesty so required for Scheherazade is only in Reiner. Beecham is melodic in the first three movements but recording quality poor after the first press

From my Aidas review ...

"I compared Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade from Thomas Beecham with the Royal Philharmonic (HMV ASD 251) to the standard Fritz Reiner with the Chicago Symphony (RCA LSC 2446, Classic Records). The Beecham offers good depth, air, and context, yielding a rich sense of an orchestra in a hall with back and side-wall reflections. Beecham's conducting is sweetly lyrical yet with drama, while the orchestra offers plenty of energy and excellent decay—a fine combination. I heard delicious tonality from horns, trumpets, piccolo, and particularly the clarinet and violin solos in the 3rd and 4th movements.





Reiner is not as lyrical as Beecham, and the Chicago Symphony's massed violins are not quite as sweet or textural. Reiner brings excitement and vivacity. Here the soundstage is wider though without the hall depth of the Beecham. Tape pre-echo was obvious—this is where the reeled tape over time imprints its magnetism onto preceding tape. Initial transient plucks from cello and bass are more obvious than on the Beecham, though perhaps a wee tiny bit rounded off. The highlight of this performance is the Chicago brass. At the time there was perhaps no better group of trumpets, horns, trombones, and baritones on the planet. From the Reiner, the Mammoth Gold delivers wonderful growly brassy tonality with mind-boggling staccato articulation. The Philharmonic brass is simply not on par."

Aidas Mammoth Gold Moving Coil Stereo Cartridge Aidas Mammoth Cartridge - Positive Feedback

Aidas Mammoth Gold Moving Coil Stereo Cartridge

positive-feedback.com

 

[bonzo75]

What do you think of this video

What do you think of this video. And this is not directed to those who think every mobile phone video is trash, thanks. Please listen to the end for the brass and the woodwinds

www.whatsbestforum.com

My post on our discussion on it last May - "Reiner also has best brass section in all of them and every individual instrument is excellent. Kondrashin has Krebbers who went on to play an excellent Beethoven concerto with Haitink and also a very good Brahms on the inexpensive LP and digital side."

 

[tima]

That's another of the several sites that Tom Port (Better Records) runs.

Not without reason. I had forgotten about him. Iirc his notion of a better record is a better pressing and does not factor record condition. Pass on that. Thanks for making the connection to that other site.

 

[bonzo75]

is it cream & Gold

 

[tima]

My post on our discussion on it last May

Yes, now I remember that. I think we mostly agree. My copy of Beecham sounds pretty good.

Also have:
Pavel Kogan w/ Moscow State Symphony
Mehta w/ Los Angeles
Ansermet - 2 versions I think
Mazel w/ Clevelanders
HvK w/ Berlin Philharmonic

 

[tima]

is it cream & Gold

I'll have to look ...

yes, 1958

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, now I remember that. I think we mostly agree. My copy of Beecham sounds pretty good.

Also have:
Pavel Kogan w/ Moscow State Symphony
Mehta w/ Los Angeles
Ansermet - 2 versions I think
Mazel w/ Clevelanders
HvK w/ Berlin Philharmonic

i have the Ansermet, didn’t like at all. Have his B9 and don’t like it either.

 

[adrianywu]

Ansermet's first stereo version was with the Paris Conservatoire orchestra, and the second with OSR. The later version is much preferred.