SOtM sNH-10G Network Switches x2 : The NEW KING of USB/Network Gadget Setup

[InfigoAudio]

I haven't really looked into them yet, but most likely Finisar uses a better clock source to reclock the received data in their SFP.
That would make a big difference in the perceived audio quality compared to other SFPs.

Cheers, Hans.

 

[marty]

I wanted to implement this configuration: OpticalModule feeding a Senore OpticalRendu. But the OpticalRendu is sold out and I can't get an answer from either Sonore or Small Green Computer if this is still a product just out-of-stock or ???

I also agree with your SFP assessment. I worked with these very early on in my prior-retirement-IT life and not only was reliability an issue but also performance in Nishan switches.

I'm still contemplating audio switches; Ediscreation .vs. SOtM, or the simplicity of a setup similar to yours. I know I want optical because of the distance from my first floor office router to the basement listening room(approx 100ft).

All comments, observations, suggestions are welcome as I'm continually shifting gears in figuring out all the issues in setting up my first audio network and streaming system.

FWIW, I used an SOtM switch a long time ago. Hard to believe they are still in use. I replaced it with a Nordost switch and difference was dramatic and very significant. (Same power supply for both Uptone JS-2). Used Nordost swtiches are available at good prices.

 

[Blake]

I've not been all that impressed with Nordost cables that I've owned. There are also boatloads of used Nordost Q Bases for sale, which isn't a good sign as people don't seem to be keeping them. The Q Base is not a switch of course, but with those samples, I guess I am not tempted to try the Nordost switch.

There will always be something better and you need to stop chasing things at a certain point.

 

[allvinyl]

There will always be something better and you need to stop chasing things at a certain point.

Boy do I agree with this and lived it for the last 50 years of my audio journey...
That said, does anyone have a part number for the Cisco SFP that many have tried and liked? Know that I am looking at 1G hw, not 10G.

What is the consensus among experienced optical ethernet users concerning sonics on 10G .vs. 1G?

 

[Superdad]

I wanted to implement this configuration: OpticalModule feeding a Senore OpticalRendu. But the OpticalRendu is sold out and I can't get an answer from either Sonore or Small Green Computer if this is still a product just out-of-stock or ???

Hi John:
The Sonore opticalRendu will be back in production shortly. (1-2 months) Global chip shortages forced them (well actually my engineer partner, John Swenson, who does all the Rendu series and opticalModule design for Sonore) to revise the board using more readily available parts.

As the shortage hit they held onto all their stock of opticalRendu boards--to use in their power-supply-integrated Signature Rendu SE. That's why you see that model still available. But the small-case, external PS opticalRendu will be available again soon.

Best,
Alex @ UpTone Audio

P.S. Our EtherREGEN Gen2 should also be in proaction this summer. I mention because I saw that you are also looking for a fine switch and, despite the high prices and fancy cases of other brands, the EtherREGEN still packs in more technical innovation and originality than any of them.

 

[Blake]

I finally had a chance to compare the Cisco SFP-10G-AOC5M directly to the Finisar FCBG110SD1C05. This could be system dependent, but the Cisco beat the Finisar. Comparatively, the Finisar is quite a bit brighter/thinner sounding. The Cisco is much more dense, solid, smooth and every bit as detailed and transparent. Cisco has a much higher realism factor. It really was no contest for me. It is surprising how different they sound. I was quite happy with the Finisar FCBG110SD1C05, but there is no going back now.

I have a Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL burning in now. It connected my two daisy-chained SOtM 10G switches without any hiccups.

 

[allvinyl]

Hi John:
The Sonore opticalRendu will be back in production shortly. (1-2 months) Global chip shortages forced them (well actually my engineer partner, John Swenson, who does all the Rendu series and opticalModule design for Sonore) to revise the board using more readily available parts.

As the shortage hit they held onto all their stock of opticalRendu boards--to use in their power-supply-integrated Signature Rendu SE. That's why you see that model still available. But the small-case, external PS opticalRendu will be available again soon.

Best,
Alex @ UpTone Audio

P.S. Our EtherREGEN Gen2 should also be in proaction this summer. I mention because I saw that you are also looking for a fine switch and, despite the high prices and fancy cases of other brands, the EtherREGEN still packs in more technical innovation and originality than any of them.

Hi Alex,
Thank you for clearing up the availability issue of the opticalRendu. Also for the info on the Gen2 EtherREGEN...

Do you know if the Cisco 10G SFP Blake writes about in post #706 of this thread works in the Sonore optical products? I've been warned by Jesus at Sonore to stay away from 10G products stating they are for data center use.

Thanks again...

 

[Superdad]

Do you know if the Cisco 10G SFP Blake writes about in post #706 of this thread works in the Sonore optical products? I've been warned by Jesus at Sonore to stay away from 10G products stating they are for data center use.

Blake was listing an AOC (active optical cable), which is just two SFP+ transceivers with hard-attached (not unpluggble) optical cable connecting them.
SFP+ (10G) transceivers with generally work in SFP (1G) cages SO LONG AS BOTH DEVICES ARE 1G SFP.
If you attach an SFP+ transceiver to a switch that whose cage is capable of 10G, then it will try sending at 10G and the 1G device at the other end (opticalRendu, opticalModule, EtherREGEN, SOtM snH-10G--odd they call it 10G since it is 1G) will not talk and it won't work.

 

[allvinyl]

Blake was listing an AOC (active optical cable), which is just two SFP+ transceivers with hard-attached (not unpluggble) optical cable connecting them.
SFP+ (10G) transceivers with generally work in SFP (1G) cages SO LONG AS BOTH DEVICES ARE 1G SFP.
If you attach an SFP+ transceiver to a switch that whose cage is capable of 10G, then it will try sending at 10G and the 1G device at the other end (opticalRendu, opticalModule, EtherREGEN, SOtM snH-10G--odd they call it 10G since it is 1G) will not talk and it won't work.

Thanks for the clarification Superdad. I didn't realize the Cisco part # was of a AOC type cable. I worked with the SFPs in their early implementation in IP networks in large IT environments. The issues then were strictly limited to reliability. Seems back then (late 90s?) they failed a lot; we were changing out failed SFPs in our Nishan brand switches all the time.

So now we're talking about SFP differences visa vie affecting sonics in our digital audio systems. At some level, this makes my head spin
I never doubt fellow audiophiles when they document what they hear. I would like to understand how these devices can affect sound characteristics in digital audio.

Given that sonic differences happen due to different SFPs, I assume the only way to know what's best in my own system is to try different SFPs. Therefore, my curiousity turns back to the Cisco part. Is there a separate part # for the SFP portion of that Cisco AOC cable?

 

[Blake]

Given that sonic differences happen due to different SFPs, I assume the only way to know what's best in my own system is to try different SFPs. Therefore, my curiousity turns back to the Cisco part. Is there a separate part # for the SFP portion of that Cisco AOC cable?

Hi John, I don't believe the Cisco has a separate part number for just the SPF portion, as the cable is permanently attached. And you are right, the only way to know which SFP will work best in your particular system is to experiment. I really don't think you could go wrong with the Cisco. I did like the Finisar before trying the Cisco, so it is also a good option, I just found the Cisco to be much better for me.

Just based on my experience, between the two, if your system is perhaps too warm/thick and you want to bring it back into balance, I'd try the Finisar. If your system is either well balanced, or leaning toward a sound that is a bit too thin or bright, then I'd say Cisco all the way.

Others may have different thoughts.

The sonic differences are very noticeable, no hyperbole. I think some users that may have dismissed SFP/optical after comparing it to ethernet (the typical comment for those preferring ethernet has been, SFP/optical made a user's system too bright) may have a different view if they tried the Cisco.

 

[InfigoAudio]

So now we're talking about SFP differences visa vie affecting sonics in our digital audio systems. At some level, this makes my head spin
I never doubt fellow audiophiles when they document what they hear. I would like to understand how these devices can affect sound characteristics in digital audio.

Given that sonic differences happen due to different SFPs, I assume the only way to know what's best in my own system is to try different SFPs. Therefore, my curiousity turns back to the Cisco part. Is there a separate part # for the SFP portion of that Cisco AOC cable?

Check out this image uploaded to the wiki page about SFPs... These things come in many different build qualities and as we all know at some point in high resolving systems EVERYTHING makes a difference.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/SFP_internal.jpg

Cheers, Hans.

 

[allvinyl]

The sonic differences are very noticeable, no hyperbole. I think some users that may have dismissed SFP/optical after comparing it to ethernet (the typical comment for those preferring ethernet has been, SFP/optical made a user's system too bright) may have a different view if they tried the Cisco.

I believe you. Yours is an observation I hadn't thought of. One can only conclude one of the main sonic determining factors in optical digital audio is the little 'ol SFP. It makes perfect sense to me. Once I have my hw in place and can assess its character, this gives me a 'component' to focus on for tuning the chain.

Now my next thought is, what about the SFP cage? This has also been mentioned in the course of these discussions.

 

[Blake]

I believe you. Yours is an observation I hadn't thought of. One can only conclude one of the main sonic determining factors in optical digital audio is the little 'ol SFP. It makes perfect sense to me. Once I have my hw in place and can assess its character, this gives me a 'component' to focus on for tuning the chain.

Now my next thought is, what about the SFP cage? This has also been mentioned in the course of these discussions.

My SOtM switches each have two SFP ports built-in, so I just plug my SFP's directly into the switches.

 

[Blake]

I posted my Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL vs. Cisco SFP-10G-AOC5M here:

Fiber vs. Ethernet sonic differences

@MarcelNL - Very interesting. Did you install just a cheap switch? Torben yeah, ISP fiber goes straight into the Fritzbox 5530, from there on one stretch of CAT6 to a cheap Netgear 205(I think) which serves the house wired internet (IPTV mainly). The AP is still connected directly to the...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[allvinyl]

Check out this image uploaded to the wiki page about SFPs... These things come in many different build qualities and as we all know at some point in high resolving systems EVERYTHING makes a difference.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3a/SFP_internal.jpg

Cheers, Hans.

Hans,
All the times I replaced SFPs in IT network environments I never tore one apart. As I previously noted, reliability was the issue and some just lasted longer than others. I appreciate the image link. I suppose understanding SFP construction is another stop in the rabbit hole I seem to find myself in at this point. ¡Ay, Caramba!

 

[orange55]

I finally had a chance to compare the Cisco SFP-10G-AOC5M directly to the Finisar FCBG110SD1C05. This could be system dependent, but the Cisco beat the Finisar. Comparatively, the Finisar is quite a bit brighter/thinner sounding. The Cisco is much more dense, solid, smooth and every bit as detailed and transparent. Cisco has a much higher realism factor. It really was no contest for me. It is surprising how different they sound. I was quite happy with the Finisar FCBG110SD1C05, but there is no going back now.

I have a Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL burning in now. It connected my two daisy-chained SOtM 10G switches without any hiccups.

My experience is the same here.
I would say that the finisar has a slightly warmer sound than the Cisco. But the Cisco does not lack bass at all and as noted has a higher grade of realism in the sound.
Like you no going back.

 

[ST Francis]

My experience is the same here.
I would say that the finisar has a slightly warmer sound than the Cisco. But the Cisco does not lack bass at all and as noted has a higher grade of realism in the sound.
Like you no going back.

I ordered and have now received a 1mt genuine Cisco AOC to replace a Finisar compatible. An immediate subtle benefit with the Cisco. It will be staying connected. An overall step up in musical realism.
John

 

[ST Francis]

My experience is the same here.
I would say that the finisar has a slightly warmer sound than the Cisco. But the Cisco does not lack bass at all and as noted has a higher grade of realism in the sound.
Like you no going back.

You and others plus myself have preferred the genuine Cisco AOC to the Finisar compatible. Do you have any comments or observations as to reasons why the genuine is definitely better?

For me it quite a noticeable benefit of one compared to the other. Until I received the genuine, I was very happy with the Finisar and did not seriously contemplate an improvement based on what I had read. Especially the extent of the improvement.

John

 

[Abrad]

Sorry if this has already been covered, I have recently bought the sotm switch and have a nucleus and orbi satellite connected via Ethernet then another Ethernet cable connecting to my dac (Lyngdorf amp). If I was to add optical isolation where is the best place ie between orbi and switch or switch and dac? Also any recommendations eg adot, diy (which elements), opticalModule etc etc?

 

[orange55]

Sorry if this has already been covered, I have recently bought the sotm switch and have a nucleus and orbi satellite connected via Ethernet then another Ethernet cable connecting to my dac (Lyngdorf amp). If I was to add optical isolation where is the best place ie between orbi and switch or switch and dac? Also any recommendations eg adot, diy (which elements), opticalModule etc etc?

My recommendation is before the SoTM. So the fibre goes into the spf input on the SoTM.
I have two sotms linked with optical lead. Works very well.