Social Media and High End Audio

[Verastarr]

Pokey77

I believe Jay was banned before making one post. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct, Jay can not comment here... He is banned

 

[Verastarr]

Jay is a self-funded hobbyist - he was here on WBF for a short time before his account was locked out - I don't know the inside track on this and don't care to, but I think he'd be here now if not for this. He's been sharing his journey for some time now and often his videos are on point IMHO. As Kingrex noted above, "if you don't like their (his) style, don't buy the "Magazine"". It is good that we have more than a few points of view out there. We all have different desires and dreams. So we should be thankful for the number of options we have and hope that even more will come along. It will up everybody's game and it will benefit the hobby. Let's face it, many of us are starting to, or are already, aging out. We need new blood, not just to buy gear, but to design/build new gear and to create community in our hobby. I find it a whole lot more enjoyable to share my experience with a live person, but my audio buddy moved away a couple years ago and so now it'd be great to find others who are looking for the same. If we can stop the choosing sides/wars/etc., maybe we could also then have a more cordial hobby where the relationships built would have a positive effect on the whole hobby. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but it'd be great if it were so.

Hey Now !! Glad to meet you, Man.... Seems like you are family.... Thanks for speaking up...

 

[Verastarr]

Was the intent of this thread to bash Social Reviewers. I guess we have had plenty of threads bashing print reviewers. Both have their place and their audience.

The Rockport incident is a bad example to dredge up. I know more about it than most. Let it lie unless you want to insult people who were not your intended target. Technically, Jay was just the messenger.

OCD Mike is the real deal. Maybe you don't like his style, but his heart and his passion to create informative material is honest. He has a good grasp of what accurate audio reproduction is. If you really look at the herd of online influencers, Mike is near the top for knowledge and content. Maybe others should see what its like to be a public face with no editorial team to rein in and help focus your content. Its hard to be even close to right every time. Especially when its a 9 to 5 job 7 days a week.

Thanks Brother, This is why I stay out of the forums.... People cant even see Im on their side..LOL.... Wow...

 

[Solypsa]

Whats your best guess ??? Yes, Playback Designs.. converts to DSDx4 ..same ADC that MoFi chose as well...

Figured

If you feel like sharing, what daw/software/machine are you using to capture?

 

[DSkip]

I'll share some experiences with some of the social media dudes:

1. OCD Mike (Verastarr) - I met him years ago, before he had the exposure he has now. We had some good interactions and he reached out wanting to represent a past product of mine. A single product, not the entire line, as he felt that one product was a standout for price/performance (I agreed). This didn't bother me, but I had to refuse the offer because it didn't align with the brand's needs. There was no disrespect on either end.

2. Jay - I first met him at Capital Audio Fest last November. He ended up loving both Rosso rooms and that is great, but that was just a side story. I was impressed with his ability to actually convey in video form what the system was doing in the room. I immediately gained respect for him as a listener because it was obvious he knew how to listen and what the high end is capable of. His coverage of my rooms generated interest immediately after the show from several potential clients.

3. Danny Richie from GR Research - I've known Danny for years and we are acquaintances. He lives a few hours from me and I've been out there a few times to visit. He can do some great things but there are other things I'm not fully bought into. That goes both ways though. In the end, he and I hear the same things but have different approaches to get there. We have a mutual respect for each other even though we have different paths.

4. Zero Fidelity - Sean is someone I consider a friend. He has reviewed a few products for me already. He and I align in many ways when it comes to preferences and often talk in more depth about the interesting products he gets. I love sending product to him, not because he is going to give me a great review, but because he is going to talk about what the product actually is. As a distributor, I want clients to know what they are getting if they buy in, not some glowing review just to generate hype. He does this and does it as well as anyone in the industry. Our friendship has never influenced a review and I have much respect for that. He did give a glowing review of the Elba 2, but it was also a most coveted product for Stereo Times and Product of the Year in The Absolute Sound.


Youtube isn't the future of reviews - its the here and now. The great (or scary) thing is that it has global implications. These four guys are among the leaders in that field and IMO have strong credentials that go deeper than what I've said that can validate their presence in our industry. Whether you agree or not, they move products and create massive exposure.

 

[Lee]

You guys are skipping around the point I made. Was the content accurate. If so, does Rockport have any action they need to take? I'm not saying I am a fan of Jays, but did he say anything that is not true? Its like the wagons are circling the manufacturer without delving into details.

No, Rockport did exactly the right thing. The whole thing was that Junkie did a drive-by shooting. If he was responsible, he would have provided Rockport's response and put that in the video.

 

[DSkip]

No they are not. Leaders in the field are people like John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Steve Huff, Andrew Robinson, and Joshua Valour. They have the most reach and influence.

AMONG.

I can tell you I hear much more clamor from my clients pertaining to the four guys I listed than I do any of the ones you list. In fact, Darko may get mentioned once a year, but I've not had a single client mention the others. I don't deny their status, but their influence is not felt in my small segment of the market.

 

[andromedaaudio]

No they are not. Leaders in the field are people like John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Steve Huff, Andrew Robinson, and Joshua Valour. They have the most reach and influence.

To say it bluntly .

Leaders in the industry are the succesfull manufacturers .
All the rest are just spin offs trying to make a buck off of their efforts

Without a product there is nothing to write about and nothing to sell.


In Belgium they have a honest word for dealers its called " verdeler".


Reviewers have way too moch influence in the industry because they pretend to know something .
Most of it is BS as they are describing their own version of the truth / preference and nothing more
Americans usually know Whats best for the world and in audio its no different .


Ps im not bashing TAS , if its a interesting read it certainly ads value but people shouldn t take it too seriously imo regarding purchases

 

[zerostargeneral]

Mr. Powell,

May I introduce myself? My name is Mr. Sami. That covered may I propose a wager that involves pain and loss?

A shootout to be judged by a panel of say five listeners to visit us both and assess a predetermined list of say ten titles?

We, that is you and I, would cover all their travel and accommodation costs.

Winner takes all.

Should you wish to publicize the contest on Youtube you may do so.

Kindest regards, G.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Audiophiles want and need both.

Want OK , but NEED ?
They also want 1 inch cables but do they need it ?

 

[bonzo75]

We, that is you and I, would cover all their travel and accommodation costs.

Plus for each of those ten titles, the guys are gifted the LP of their choice for that performance

 

[tima]

I have been very critical about some of the social media folks and their behavior and also for their lack of experience and their agenda driven rants. I believe that those who are selling gear and/or are associated with dealers or manufacturers ( this applies to review sites as well) are really doing more harm than good and are walking a very fine line in the ethics department. I believe that video is the present and the future for High End audio just as it is for almost every other product based industry. Knowledge is good and the easiest and fastest way to get that information out I also believe is a good thing. I was very disappointed by some of the IMO mean spirited attacks on manufacturers in some of these social media sites and the repression and insulting replies to questions and dissenting viewpoints. If you are going to discuss something and try to be a journalist then I believe it should be balanced and as fair as possible. OK my speech is over.
I saw this video this morning and thought it might be a very good place to have a discussion of some points that were made within it.
I am a lifer and audio is not only my joy but it is my business as well. All points of view are needed to improve the industry for all participants in all areas of the business and hobby. Knowledge is power.
Gentlemen the floor is yours:

Elliot, for all your experience and time in the audio industry lately you seem to rant a lot. Instead of telling us to watch some video, tell us the points it makes and why you do or don't think it makes sense. What points are worth discussing? That could be a contribution. Knowledge may be power, but ranting is not.

When I think about the value of videos I think of videos of systems playing music, not videos of people trying to sell me somethng. Sales videos are boring to me and they generally don't make me think. Video that trys to explain how to do something or show things that could be difficult to describe succinctly can be helpful or interesting. In those senses video may be in the future but I don't think it is the only future. Listening to a system video you get to hear what someone has and you can have an opinion about what you hear. If you want to learn what someone else has to say I find a written review still the best. As with stereo systems, some media presentations are better than others.

 

[PeterA]

Elliot, I watched Jay's video you posted. I see him stirring up some drama to create more views. He is also issuing forth a kind of notice to the industry that something needs to change. This is the message imbedded in the drama, as I see it. He wants the players to clean up and to better serve the customers. He compares the industry to others that are much more heavily funded. I do not know if it is an apt comparison. Most audio companies don't have "QC" departments. It has a guy or two putting things together, full of passion. They are trying to make things happen and get their designs out there. For the most part, I think they are doing the best they can.

Jay has some reach, and he provides a different perspective. I find him refreshing and amusing. He is not dependent on others and can freely express himself, or so it seems. He is questioning the status quo and shaking things up a bit. He can also be ignored.

Someone mentioned that he was banned from this site. I heard that it had to do with a less than stellar review he made of the Center Stage Footers but I was told in no uncertain terms that that was not it. The conflict carried over to comment sections on his channel and on another forum as I remember. It was all fairly unpleasant, and he was suddenly banned shortly after he joined. I was told my recollection is totally false.

I like OCD Mikey for his candor, his seeming experience, and for comments like this one from a long post on page 2: "UNLESS you prefer over analytical soul less ear candy that sounds embellished and unnatural." It is direct and not sugar coated. I understand the language. I have heard systems just as he describes, so it resonates with me.

Jay is gaining in popularity, along with some others. I think his audience is younger people with an interested. Some people are paying attention, others are ignoring him. I think the tent needs to expand with additional points of view, and on some level, it is all just talk and perhaps something to think about. You watched the video, thought about it, and started this thread. It is a shame that Jay was banned and is unable to join the discussion.

 

[Sampajanna]

A healthy industry should be able to withstand and even welcome a bit of stirring up. The rebel in me welcomes it. That said, I tend to avoid ranty videos. I prefer set up videos, or tear downs or even component comparisons, even though they are limited by the video playback.

Mikey does seem very knowledgeable, loves music and says what he thinks without filters, to a fault even. Most importantly though, he is smiley and genuinely feels like a dude I would enjoy hanging out with. I like when his channel passes through phases of more of a balance of rants and exploration . If you step in understanding that he is a bit jaded by the industry, and understand why, his channel makes sense. That said, I truly would hang out with him and know we’d have a great time of it And that says something. I get the feeling that we wouldn’t argue at all and end up best buds. To Mikey (if you are still reading): The Playback is a stellar dac. Wonderful. But the Horizon is better . With dialed in tubes, it is the boss…

I think Jay brings up some good points and I second a second chance for him to share here on WBF. Perhaps he could promise to abide by the rules he broke. Not knowing what he did makes it hard to say, though. I especially liked the way he pointed out that magazines, reviewers and manufacturers are all way too sensitive. They always dismiss criticism or blame the one who is offering criticism, even on these forums. The magazines in particular need to get with it and start creating more varied content. TAS seems to finally be doing this with YouTube and Fremer, which I like. I enjoyed the Shunyata tour and the tour of Fremer’s system, for example. More journey, more system building and less best box, next best box and then next even better bestest box. In general, Jay’s channel focuses too much on price and too little on music for me. I prefer music over gear. The video editing/quality needs work, as others have said. But that is another issue. His is not a videographer.

On a final note, I love the WBF YouTube videos. Ron is an excellent listener and interviewer. His interview with Emille and Karen were stellar and he asked all the right questions, being neither harsh nor fawning and poking like a good journalist, but listening and facilitating learning about the brand and about audio in general. I learned a ton from these videos. I like the way Ron thinks. Two thumbs up.

 

[ctydwn]

My vote would be to allow Jay on the forum. He has never posted here to begin with.
What is anyone afraid of? Just feeds into some of the points he made in the video. Seems particularly unfair given his content is posted here and that he then cannot speak for himself and respond to criticisms, critiques, potential misrepresentations of points he may have been trying to make and follow-up questions on what he might not have addressed. Clearly Mikey is able to.

 

[Scott Naylor]

How on earth did this turn into a thread lobbying for Jay YouTube being allowed back on this forum?

 

[WBF Team]

The moderators have removed the posts which violated the TOS and re-opened the thread. However, if the conversation continues with personal attacks we will permanently close it. Posts which express opinions about various forms of review and even specific reviewers are fine within the TOS but let's try to be cordial.

Regarding Jay, he was banned and will not be returning (based on our conversation with the owners). You may disagree with this but it is what it is.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, for all your experience and time in the audio industry lately you seem to rant a lot. Instead of telling us to watch some video, tell us the points it makes and why you do or don't think it makes sense. What points are worth discussing? That could be a contribution. Knowledge may be power, but ranting is not.

When I think about the value of videos I think of videos of systems playing music, not videos of people trying to sell me somethng. Sales videos are boring to me and they generally don't make me think. Video that trys to explain how to do something or show things that could be difficult to describe succinctly can be helpful or interesting. In those senses video may be in the future but I don't think it is the only future. Listening to a system video you get to hear what someone has and you can have an opinion about what you hear. If you want to learn what someone else has to say I find a written review still the best. As with stereo systems, some media presentations are better than others.

I was not ranting Tima and whenever someone like me, in the industry posts it seems to provoke the wrong type of conversation based on the fact that I am part of the Devils inner circle of dealers/distibutors.manufacturers. I posted the video hoping this might start a conversation about the points Jay made, many good points, points that some of the younger members of WBF may not be familiar with such as the workings of the Industry, Whether or not one wants to deal with this and understand this is not under my control nor do I want to "rant" about how a business is structured and how it works. I think many that receive a paycheck dont know nor are they interested in knowing.
FYI there was no music in this video if you actually watched it nor was there any sales pitch. I was neither endorsing nor condemning anything just posted and it started a shit show so I did not participate. Oh If I can tell you to do stuff that's news to me I dont believe anyone forced you to get involved at all, you made the choice so don't point to me.

 

[Elliot G.]

Elliot, I watched Jay's video you posted. I see him stirring up some drama to create more views. He is also issuing forth a kind of notice to the industry that something needs to change. This is the message imbedded in the drama, as I see it. He wants the players to clean up and to better serve the customers. He compares the industry to others that are much more heavily funded. I do not know if it is an apt comparison. Most audio companies don't have "QC" departments. It has a guy or two putting things together, full of passion. They are trying to make things happen and get their designs out there. For the most part, I think they are doing the best they can.

Jay has some reach, and he provides a different perspective. I find him refreshing and amusing. He is not dependent on others and can freely express himself, or so it seems. He is questioning the status quo and shaking things up a bit. He can also be ignored.

Jay is a young man and a relative newcomer to the audio business. I think many young men pound their chests and do things that maybe they wouldnt do when they are older. OCD wings it here al lthe time. SO what! Its just words and I was trying to start a discussion based on some of the points he made and instead it turned into the WBF special. There seem sto be many that just want to start something, hijack a thread and make something that could be productive and educational and begin some battle. I am personally tired of being insulted and as many know I am not the shy and retiring type if you start I wont back down. Thats my issue and I want to do less of it. I put most of those folks on ignore, they don't allow me to do anything productive here. THis place has become the WWE royal rumble abnout everything which is sad to me.

 

[PeterA]

Jay is a young man and a relative newcomer to the audio business. I think many young men pound their chests and do things that maybe they wouldnt do when they are older. OCD wings it here al lthe time. SO what! Its just words and I was trying to start a discussion based on some of the points he made and instead it turned into the WBF special. There seem sto be many that just want to start something, hijack a thread and make something that could be productive and educational and begin some battle. I am personally tired of being insulted and as many know I am not the shy and retiring type if you start I wont back down. Thats my issue and I want to do less of it. I put most of those folks on ignore, they don't allow me to do anything productive here. THis place has become the WWE royal rumble abnout everything which is sad to me.

I am not rumbling with you here Elliot. I responded to your question and to the content of Jay’s video and shared what I think. I don’t think this is about members reacting to you for starting this thread. Some are actually discussing Jay’s video and it’s very interesting for OCD Mikey to join the conversation as they are friends and have perhaps a similar perspective.

I must’ve missed a lot when I was sleeping last night for the thread to be shut down when I woke up. I actually don’t see what the fuss is about.