Who has greatest power in influencing audiophiles in today's world? Dealers? Magazines/ Reviewers? Forums? Shows? Social Media Stars?

[Mike Lavigne]

Attack this forum? What a victim.

You can't build up the reputation you have Mike and then get upset when people talk about it.

It's ok - embrace what you've been able to accomplish.

as you know this is in no way about me, that's you looking for cover for your overstep. and not finding it.

 

[Synaxis]

as you know this is in no way about me, that's you looking for cover for your overstep. and not finding it.

LOL

There is no one here who believes for one second there aren't paid influences and many of the reviewers aren't on the take. Well, except those who play surprised who are profiting from it themselves.

You're still pretending the world is flat.

And you're awfully sensitive for someone who believes they are not a part of the conversation.

 

[Synaxis]

whatever, no wonder your YouTube channel is dead, later

I bet that took you a long time to come up with that.

It's better than having a dead speaker brand.

 

[Porsche]

LOLOLOL. I bet that took you a long time to come up with that.

It's better than having a dead speaker brand.

you really need better research, your reporting is quite bad, im done with this tit for tat, you talk about things you can't back up, you throw things on the wall to see if it sticks, sadly it doesn't. by the way, our speaker brand has been great going on 13 years now, nothing dead about it, thanks again

 

[Synaxis]

you really need better research, your reporting is quite bad, im done with this tit for tat, you talk about things you can't back up, you throw things on the wall to see if it sticks, sadly it doesn't. by the way, our speaker brand has been great going on 13 years now, nothing dead about it, thanks again

My reporting? LOL

I'm not a reporter.

Everything I said about Tannoy ended up happening. It all came true. And you were wrong about it. Why are you so bothered by that?

Good luck with keeping customers more happy.

 

[Holmz]

Peter I am not sure I agree. I know so many people that want to take a survey of all possible participants which usually ends in IMO not making the best choice. I agree that people want what they think they want which is influenced by more factors than we can list. I will say this and I am sure the readers won't like my statement but many buy by looks and price. When you ask people why they bought something the number one answer is "i got a great deal"

I had a great first system, and I got a good deal on it.
Had it for decades.

More recently I have replaced parts of that system with components that the Haus-Boss likes the looks of.

I always say if you listen and the place you listen doesn't have good sound then why are you buying there? I guess I am crazy

We should take a poll on that too.
Maybe we all are?

But we would need a double blind poll

 

[ctydwn]

i feel better after reading this thread. whew. personal attacks, mudslinging. some of the best of wbf. what a terrible look. grabbing more popcorn i guess

 

[tima]

Mike claims reviewers and forum people are not bought and paid for by companies and distributors.

We all know that is a patently false statement as the companies and distributors themselves admit it.

I think this has gone on long enough. What is your grievance?

You are painting with an overly broad brush. If you have a specific accusation you want to make then lay it out. Otherwise, whether you recognize it or not, you are tarnishing the industry and the hobby.

 

[Iamrael]

Synaxis, I don’t think Mike has ever denied any of what you say.
I think It’s important however to highlight the ethical implications you’re teetering on between someone who has earned public trust and is compensated to endorse/promote a product because he believes in its merits and somone that is willing to compromise their integrity for the same compensation.
The former is a win/win/win if you subscribe to the same goals as Mike and there really is no “there, there”, imo.

 

[ctydwn]

do you know anyone personally who has bought gear due directly to a YouTube influencer? or even mostly due to them?

i know OCD Mikey has been a dealer for awhile. how much of what he sells is YouTube oriented. or out of his area? not sure about Audiophile Junkie. so what is what?

not saying they do not have a presence to some degree in the hfi noise background. but what exactly does that do? my perspective is that it entertains mostly. which is all YouTube cares about. viewers. so don't confuse subscribers or video views with hifi commerce.

i subscribe to a round the world trawler YouTube channel and live the yachting life vicariously thru it. my wife has chosen an RV instead. that is my reality. and i embrace it fully. but i do what i can to still feel a part of that other dream retired future. no harm no foul.

I think for someone that has had the same amplifiers for 19 years (apologies if i misinterpreted), perhaps you should start listening to those doing the work, day in day out comparing the latest hifi audio gear. speaking for myself only. i know personally 2 dozen audiophiles that have bought gear solely from boots on the ground audio reviewers that have a youtube presence (u know who i mean). but perhaps more importantly, i know many more that have not from same opinions. i think there is a clear correlation between reputable online presence, dare we say social media or utube presence, and hifi commerce. that trend will continue.
unfortunately, i think wbf still dominated by older school info sharing, versus as you call utube / social media higher end audiophile community “that is mainly entertainment” which is sharing info by the hour globally on everything from grounding to speakers to yet to be released products.

 

[Synaxis]

I think this has gone on long enough. What is your grievance?

You are painting with an overly broad brush. If you have a specific accusation you want to make then lay it out. Otherwise, whether you recognize it or not, you are tarnishing the industry and the hobby.

Tarnishing the industry and the hobby. Oh please, drama queen.

Simply being honest about the people on the take is not a grievance. Why are you so bothered we acknowledge this common practice?

I think it is a shame when we have YouTube/dealers who "pretend to be looking out for you" when they trash all the gear they were denied being dealers for or not allowed to sell, yet claim they only sell the couple of best items. I think it's a shame when the video content of what high end gear is the best, is only based on how much product that YouTube was able to buy at a discount, or was given multiple copies of so that he could do a video and turn around and immediately sell the items. Or that the only rooms they cover at show, and pretend it's because they like the room, is really because they charge between $1500 - $3000 to name the rooms and openly shop SELLING their best of show award for money. Almost all the common show coverage people demand money to talk about a room.

Their prices are common knowledge. It's a wide-spread practice so let's not pretend this is a rare occurrence. I've been shocked over the last few years to see how widespread and prevalent it really is. Let's not even get started on many of the big name the legacy print reviewers and what their demands to do reviews are - this isn't limited to the new reviewers. THAT'S the harm to this industry. Everyone deserves to get paid for their time and effort, but not hidden behind lies.

It's always funny to me the only people claiming it isn't happening are some of the people who are reviewers or manufacturers so small none of the establishment cares enough to even ask them for money. Literally virtually every single manufacturer and high end distributor I've spoken to openly talks about what they pay who. And multiple have told me about being BLACKMAILED to either give the product for free or they will give it a poor review. One of them was a reviewer in Canada and if the distributor is telling the truth he had to get a cease and desist letter sent to the reviewer so he wouldn't get trashed for not giving him free gear to get a good review.

If you are claiming you have never heard these conversations, then you need to look inward as to how you could be so out of touch with what goes on in this industry. People have a right to know when the reviews are bought and paid for with a pre-determined positive review. It's more common than many can imagine.

 

[Kbh57]

The practices you describe are dishonest and certainly harmful to consumers to the extent it happens. As one of the consumers who watches the videos, attends shows, and reads the magazines, I'd like to know which among them engage in these disreputable practices. The problem is that if you have the "receipts" and won't show them, it doesn't help the consumers or the industry. If the accusations are made without evidence-that dog won't hunt. So, if your goal is to advance the hobby, and maybe that's not your purpose, name names and back it up-if you can do that a lot of people will thank you. If you can't or won't, its just bloviating on an internet forum, not the first time that's happened, but to no purpose.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Almost all the common show coverage people demand money to talk about a room.

Except me , i guess im not good enough then ..

 

[bonzo75]

As one of the consumers who watches the videos, attends shows, and reads the magazines,

Living the dream...

 

[Synaxis]

Except me , i guess im not good enough then

Nah - you're just one of the honest ones.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nah - you're just one of the honest ones.

I could change that lol for a bit of extra cash

 

[Synaxis]

I could change that lol for a bit of extra cash

LOL. Go for it! It's all good to make money doing what you love! Just be honest with a disclaimer and all is good.

 

[andromedaaudio]

LOL. Go for it! It's all good to make money doing what you love! Just be honest with a disclaimer and all is good.

Lol i ll even give cables excellent reviews .
The Highest bidder,..... thats how it works afaic

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think for someone that has had the same amplifiers for 19 years (apologies if i misinterpreted)

same brand for 19 years, my dart 468's were new in 2018. my Mk2 dart pre was new in 2016.

all my sources are recently (last 2-3 years) new or enhanced.

, perhaps you should start listening to those doing the work, day in day out comparing the latest hifi audio gear.

doing the work? i've done all that work. it's well documented here and on other forums as much as anyone's to find. and am not 'on the hunt for new answers. that's not claiming that new things cannot be learned for those seeking. system building is a process that fuels attention to information. i'm not system building.

speaking for myself only. i know personally 2 dozen audiophiles that have bought gear solely from boots on the ground audio reviewers that have a youtube presence (u know who i mean).

that is a different experience than mine.

but perhaps more importantly, i know many more that have not from same opinions. i think there is a clear correlation between reputable online presence, dare we say social media or utube presence, and hifi commerce. that trend will continue.

maybe. i'm ok with not being up to speed on the power of YouTube hifi influencers. i can still enjoy my system every day. i get plenty of hifi info feedback from my circle of friends and paying attention to forums and going to shows here and there. if suddenly there was a product in my sights and a YouTube guy was talking about it no reason not to tune in. but unlikely for that to happen these days.

unfortunately, i think wbf still dominated by older school info sharing

i think it's fortunate. YMMV.

, versus as you call utube / social media higher end audiophile community “that is mainly entertainment” which is sharing info by the hour globally on everything from grounding to speakers to yet to be released products.

my system is mature and i've posted multiple times that as a retired guy who has built a system exactly how i wanted it to be, i'm not pursuing gear any more. 7 years ago i tested other amps in my system and as discussed have flirted with changing my amps and pre and even my speakers but pulled back from all that. i do have plenty of audiophiles i interact personally with all the time and so my need for hifi interaction is fully satisfied. i prefer 'old-school' hifi sharing myself, where the credibility is based on relationships, not hyperbole.

YouTube Hifi videos are answering questions i'm not asking.

i might downsize my home, so move and have to sort out a new room. that could fuel investigations. who knows whether i might then investigate YouTube hifi influencers. it's possible. more likely i would fall back on relationships for new directions. so there could be another chapter in my system building life.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Simply being honest about the people on the take is not a grievance.

+1

I think it is a shame when we have YouTube/dealers who "pretend to be looking out for you" when they trash all the gear they were denied being dealers for or not allowed to sell, yet claim they only sell the couple of best items.

+1

I think it's a shame when the video content of what high end gear is the best, is only based on how much product that YouTube was able to buy at a discount, or was given multiple copies of so that he could do a video and turn around and immediately sell the items.

In any other industry -- in any industry with a semblance of ethics or of self-regulation -- if undisclosed this would be characterized as an illegal "pump and dump" scheme.

There are a variety of arrangements and marketing schemes between Jay and manufacturers or distributors pursuant to which a component will appear on Jay's channel, be pumped, and then be listed for sale and, hopefully, sold according to a pre-agreed profit-sharing or other financial arrangement.

Please let me be crystal clear here:

1) I like Jay personally very much. His heart is in the right place. Jay works extremely hard! He works on his channel probably at least 14 hours a day. Everyone has to eat.

2) I give Jay a huge amount of credit for figuring out how to make money in a decreasing economic pie industry. He has done an incredible job building his business and his viewership. Jay is a lot smarter than I am.

3) I have no objection in principle to any of Jay's activities and arrangements.

4) I object to some of Jay's activities and arrangements only because they are not disclosed. I would have no trouble with any of his activities and arrangements if they were fully and fairly disclosed to his viewers. Disclosure is my only issue.

For example, if a manufacturer agrees with Jay to send to Jay its component with the understanding that Jay will "review" it and thereafter put it on Jay's sales website for sale, and then split the sales proceeds, if any, with the manufacturer all of this should be disclosed.

Jay's Audio Lab has an arrangement with [manufacturer] pursuant to which Jay will review the [name of manufacturer's component] on the channel and then list the component for sale on the Jay's Audio Lab website and attempt to sell it, and then split any sale proceeds with the manufacturer.

This is all that is required to cleanse the entire affair.

Or that the only rooms they cover at show, and pretend it's because they like the room, is really because they charge between $1500 - $3000 to name the rooms and openly shop SELLING their best of show award for money.

+1

In the interest of full disclosure a few months ago I decided I am no longer going to work for free. Everyone has to eat.

Except in special cases, if any, I will no longer be doing show interview videos for free. I will be charging (less than anybody else) for videos of show interviews, product debuts and exhibit room tours. I will not be selling best of show awards.