Who has greatest power in influencing audiophiles in today's world? Dealers? Magazines/ Reviewers? Forums? Shows? Social Media Stars?

[Elliot G.]

Tarnishing the industry and the hobby. Oh please, drama queen.

Simply being honest about the people on the take is not a grievance. Why are you so bothered we acknowledge this common practice?

I think it is a shame when we have YouTube/dealers who "pretend to be looking out for you" when they trash all the gear they were denied being dealers for or not allowed to sell, yet claim they only sell the couple of best items. I think it's a shame when the video content of what high end gear is the best, is only based on how much product that YouTube was able to buy at a discount, or was given multiple copies of so that he could do a video and turn around and immediately sell the items. Or that the only rooms they cover at show, and pretend it's because they like the room, is really because they charge between $1500 - $3000 to name the rooms and openly shop SELLING their best of show award for money. Almost all the common show coverage people demand money to talk about a room.

Their prices are common knowledge. It's a wide-spread practice so let's not pretend this is a rare occurrence. I've been shocked over the last few years to see how widespread and prevalent it really is. Let's not even get started on many of the big name the legacy print reviewers and what their demands to do reviews are - this isn't limited to the new reviewers. THAT'S the harm to this industry. Everyone deserves to get paid for their time and effort, but not hidden behind lies.

It's always funny to me the only people claiming it isn't happening are some of the people who are reviewers or manufacturers so small none of the establishment cares enough to even ask them for money. Literally virtually every single manufacturer and high end distributor I've spoken to openly talks about what they pay who. And multiple have told me about being BLACKMAILED to either give the product for free or they will give it a poor review. One of them was a reviewer in Canada and if the distributor is telling the truth he had to get a cease and desist letter sent to the reviewer so he wouldn't get trashed for not giving him free gear to get a good review.

If you are claiming you have never heard these conversations, then you need to look inward as to how you could be so out of touch with what goes on in this industry. People have a right to know when the reviews are bought and paid for with a pre-determined positive review. It's more common than many can imagine.

First I don't believe that you are totally wrong about many of the things you brought up. I do however think you are tossing it all together as if its everything and everyone. That I do not believe. There have been some discussions here in the past about the review part of the Industry and I for one have been critical about some of the practices. There is certainly pressure and leverage exerted.

Are there bad actors? I think the answer is yes but to paint them all with the same brush is unfair and I believe not the fact.

 

[Synaxis]

First I don't believe that you are totally wrong about many of the things you brought up. I do however think you are tossing it all together as if its everything and everyone. That I do not believe. There have been some discussions here in the past about the review part of the Industry and I for one have been critical about some of the practices. There is certainly pressure and leverage exerted.

Are there bad actors? I think the answer is yes but to paint them all with the same brush is unfair and I believe not the fact.

Hi Elliot - I totally agree it is not everyone. Thank you for helping to make the point clear.

I will say as I became more educated on this industry, I was shocked at how widespread it was. It's not isolated.

 

[Elliot G.]

Hi Elliot - I totally agree it is not everyone. Thank you for helping to make the point clear.

I will say as I became more educated on this industry, I was shocked at how widespread it was. It's not isolated.

Well I deal with it every day as I have been a dealer etc. for a very long time. The practices by all parties, and I do mean all , could use some soul searching.
Dealers
Press
Influencers,
Consumers
Distributors
Manufacturers

all play a part and the result is what we are dealing with. There are a lot of complaints to go around but everyone needs to look in the mirror to fix it. Which IMO will never happen.

 

[Synaxis]

Well I deal with it every day as I have been a dealer etc. for a very long time. The practices by all parties, and I do mean all , could use some soul searching.
Dealers
Press
Influencers,
Consumers
Distributors
Manufacturers

all play a part and the result is what we are dealing with. There are a lot of complaints to go around but everyone needs to look in the mirror to fix it. Which IMO will never happen.

Well said. I agree.

I'm sure you've seen it all being in the industry as long as you have.

 

[Rt66indierock]

Nobody has any power to Influence audiophiles.

 

[wil]

Hifi is no different from any other industry in that it has its share of shifty players. This reality requires the consumer to be wary.

(From my experience, the absolute worst are car mechanics. In many, many cases it is simply baked into the cake that they will cheat their customers. It’s just the way they do business.)

The dishonesty in the hi-fi world is far more subtle and has many shades of gray. I agree that someone like Jay needs to be totally upfront about his business model. Not to do so, is patently dishonest. But far worse, in my opinion, would be the YouTuber who constantly beats the drum of what I like to call the “honest con.” The message being that “I’m the only honest one in the sea of corruption.Trust me. I’m the one looking out for you.” And on and ad nauseum.

I think a good model for transparency would be what Six Moons does. That is, they state up front that their business model requires that if you want a review, you need to buy an ad.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nobody has any power to Influence audiophiles.

People are very easily influenced in general .
Not only audiophiles.
Thats why companies spend so much on advertizing .

Audiophiles play a large role themselves .
People in general like to be influenced you can see that every where.
People love hyped stuff thats why they always need to have the latest hyped trend .
3 - 4 years and a new top of the line piece arrives as a "must have "

Its a consumer culture and those who know how to play it well win the game .

 

[Rt66indierock]

People are very easily influenced in general .
Not only audiophiles.
Thats why companies spend so much on advertizing you know that better then any other .

Audiophiles play a large role themselves .
People in general like to be influenced you can see that every where.
People love hyped stuff

If anybody in the audiophile world had any power they would have stopped me in 2017. Or did you forget?

 

[andromedaaudio]

If anybody in the audiophile world had any power they would have stopped me in 2017. Or did you forget?

What did you do in 2017 ?
I have no idea what you mean

 

[Rt66indierock]

What did you do in 2017 ?
I have no idea what you mean

A great example of nobody has any influence.

 

[Lagonda]

What did you do in 2017 ?
I have no idea what you mean

I suddenly remember why i put him on "ignore" !

 

[andromedaaudio]

A great example of nobody has any influence.

Why do you think a forum like WBF gained popularity?
Its a audiophile rehab.

 

[Rt66indierock]

Why do you think a forum like WBF gained popularity?
Its a audiophile rehab.

Just how popular do you think WBF is? 30k members only two who actively fought MQA. Seems a little of of the mainstream to me. Since I’m still considered a professional in audio I don’t need rehab.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Just how popular do you think WBF is? 30k members only two who actively fought MQA. Seems a little of of the mainstream to me. Since I’m still considered a professional in audio I don’t need rehab.

And ....did win you win lol ?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Just how popular do you think WBF is? 30k members only two who actively fought MQA. Seems a little of of the mainstream to me. Since I’m still considered a professional in audio I don’t need rehab.

I meant it in the sense of people looking for different opinions then the usual hifi magz standards

 

[Iamrael]

Synaxis said:
Or that the only rooms they cover at show, and pretend it's because they like the room, is really because they charge between $1500 - $3000 to name the rooms and openly shop SELLING their best of show award for money.

Wow..worse than I thought.

 

[Rt66indierock]

And ....did win you win lol ?

MQA Ltd is liquidated, no relevant streaming of MQA. And Lenbrook is reduced to shilling its MQA products trying to find a market. Winning but final victory will be when there is no MQA ip in the market.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Synaxis said:
Or that the only rooms they cover at show, and pretend it's because they like the room, is really because they charge between $1500 - $3000 to name the rooms and openly shop SELLING their best of show award for money.

Wow..worse than I thought.

Having visited MOC for the past 4 years and after reading some of those reports that would actually not surprise me

 

[Elliot G.]

I meant it in the sense of people looking for different opinions then the usual hifi magz standards

people love to get others opinions on audio , to pretend this is not true is just false. This is from the beginning and its worse today because of the number of differing opinions from all the sources.

 

[Elliot G.]

Synaxis said:
Or that the only rooms they cover at show, and pretend it's because they like the room, is really because they charge between $1500 - $3000 to name the rooms and openly shop SELLING their best of show award for money.

Wow..worse than I thought.

I think there are two different things that you combined.
Paying for videos has been around for a very long time Peter Breuninger was charging for video's a long time ago. I have paid to have video's made to cover our events and our show rooms. I never was approached saying if you pay that they will say great things or put down others. If one is making video's it is impossible to cover properly every room. I can also say that many of the video people NEVER or almost never come in my room, so I can never make any of their lists or rewards.
I think that there many be some funny stuff that goes on with some of the youtube videos and it is to be expected if those shooting video are dealers and representing their lines and their products.
The whole thing is far from Koscher but it is out there and some are above board and others not.
To pretend that these alternative marketing tools aren't out there and aren't worthwhile investigating is IMO not keeping up with the world. For many companies , particularly the smaller ones they , like myself, need to get our gear and names out there as best we can afford.

It is difficult to get recognition from the old stream media like the Magazines and even when you do sometimes it is very short lived. BTW those reviews cost money, the money is not direct payments , however it is still there. It is expensive to send all this gear all over the place and live without it for long periods of time. I know because I spent the money.