Social Media and High End Audio

[Elliot G.]

I am not rumbling with you here Elliot. I responded to your question and to the content of Jay’s video and shared what I think. I don’t think this is about members reacting to you for starting this thread. Some are actually discussing Jay’s video and it’s very interesting for OCD Mikey to join the conversation as they are friends and have perhaps a similar perspective.

I must’ve missed a lot when I was sleeping last night for the thread to be shut down when I woke up. I actually don’t see what the fuss is about.

I went to sleep as well but the fuss mostly was about attacks made and the reactions to them which of course had nothing to do with the video. SO what else is new. I wont go any further since I am ranting and to be frank this whole thing has gotten really tiresome. I am tired really tired of the trolls on here who add nothing but hate everything .

 

[Carlos269]

I went to sleep as well but the fuss mostly was about attacks made and the reactions to them which of course had nothing to do with the video. SO what else is new. I wont go any further since I am ranting and to be frank this whole thing has gotten really tiresome. I am tired really tired of the trolls on here who add nothing but hate everything .

Elliot, you are here ranting, calm down. What happened to your member identification initiative? When are you planning on responding to me? Perhaps we can discuss the points outlined by Jay in his video during your visit. I thought that I would remind you that you have yet to respond, since you “won’t back down”.

 

[tima]

Oh If I can tell you to do stuff that's news to me I dont believe anyone forced you to get involved at all, you made the choice so don't point to me.

You did say 'watch the video'' and that was the context of my remark. For all the time you spend telling us are an industry poobah I would expect you to make a greater contribution instead of handing off to a YouTube salesman who cannot receive response here. You whine too much about industry bashing when you could make an eloquent defense and explanation of your role. I am and have been consistently supportive of dealers, distributors, and manufacturers and expect them to hold themselves to a high standard. I do not think you need someone else to speak for you.

Contra McLuhan, the medium is not the message. The content is the message.

 

[Pokey77]

Pokey77

I believe Jay was banned before making one post. Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

That sounds kind of familiar to me. Sad, very sad.

 

[Elliot G.]

You did say 'watch the video'' and that was the context of my remark. For all the time you spend telling us are an industry poobah I would expect you to make a greater contribution instead of handing off to a YouTube salesman who cannot receive response here. You whine too much about industry bashing when you could make an eloquent defense and explanation of your role. I am and have been consistently supportive of dealers, distributors, and manufacturers and expect them to hold themselves to a high standard. I do not think you need someone else to speak for you.

Contra McLuhan, the medium is not the message. The content is the message.

and the beat goes on.....What productive nuggets of wisdom is this adding? If you can't watch something and think for yourself I am not the problem and if that is the case that you need it explained then ignore it. Don't you get tired of this crap ?
You want to insult me? go ahead truly go ahead I have nothing to prove to you .

 

[Redwoodaudio]

Whats your best guess ??? Yes, Playback Designs.. converts to DSDx4 ..same ADC that MoFi chose as well...

That must be a recent change in gear for MoFi, then. In August '22 TAS interview, MoFi said: "Any title cut from DSD64 was captured from 2011 to January 2014, using the Meitner A/D. When better technology became available, we upgraded to the Merging Technologies Horus A/D which captures in DSD256."

MoFi President Jim Davis Addresses the Digital LP-Mastering Controversy - The Absolute Sound

MoFi President Jim Davis Addresses the Digital LP-Mastering Controversy - Jim Davis, president of Mofi, gives JV and RH insight into the company's mastering process in this exclusive interview.

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[Pokey77]

Elliot, I watched Jay's video you posted. I see him stirring up some drama to create more views. He is also issuing forth a kind of notice to the industry that something needs to change. This is the message imbedded in the drama, as I see it. He wants the players to clean up and to better serve the customers. He compares the industry to others that are much more heavily funded. I do not know if it is an apt comparison. Most audio companies don't have "QC" departments. It has a guy or two putting things together, full of passion. They are trying to make things happen and get their designs out there. For the most part, I think they are doing the best they can.

Jay has some reach, and he provides a different perspective. I find him refreshing and amusing. He is not dependent on others and can freely express himself, or so it seems. He is questioning the status quo and shaking things up a bit. He can also be ignored.

Someone mentioned that he was banned from this site. I heard that it had to do with a less than stellar review he made of the Center Stage Footers but I was told in no uncertain terms that that was not it. The conflict carried over to comment sections on his channel and on another forum as I remember. It was all fairly unpleasant, and he was suddenly banned shortly after he joined. I was told my recollection is totally false.

I like OCD Mikey for his candor, his seeming experience, and for comments like this one from a long post on page 2: "UNLESS you prefer over analytical soul less ear candy that sounds embellished and unnatural." It is direct and not sugar coated. I understand the language. I have heard systems just as he describes, so it resonates with me.

Jay is gaining in popularity, along with some others. I think his audience is younger people with an interested. Some people are paying attention, others are ignoring him. I think the tent needs to expand with additional points of view, and on some level, it is all just talk and perhaps something to think about. You watched the video, thought about it, and started this thread. It is a shame that Jay was banned and is unable to join the discussion.

Couldn’t agree with you more on that point Peter.

 

[sbnx]

Please watch the video , there is a reason that I posted it.

Ok. I watc

The example of the $60K Rockport issues is instructive. Rockport's response in the Junkies original video comments section PROVE they did the right thing. They literally could not have done anything better.

I will also just assume you are not referencing me in the TAS videos given my charismatic on-camera performance.

Lee, i did enjoy your interview with Jim Smith. I thought that video was well done.

 

[tima]

You want to insult me? go ahead truly go ahead I have nothing to prove to you .

FWIW, I'm not insulting you -- I expect more from you.

 

[Lee]

Ok. I watc

Lee, i did enjoy your interview with Jim Smith. I thought that video was well done.

Thanks. I am on a learning curve but I am trying to give honest observations and be informative.

 

[Robert Young]

Many of you - some of whom i have developed great respect for over the past year - are doing a solid job of reminding me why i left the on-line "community" of music and equipment lovers years ago, and make me question why I returned. I don't know what's in the water these days, but maybe you all should sit down in a comfy chair with your favorite cocktail or other drink and have a good listen to some music you love. There's way too much crankiness here.

 

[Audire]

Many of you - some of whom i have developed great respect for over the past year - are doing a solid job of reminding me why i left the on-line "community" of music and equipment lovers years ago, and make me question why I returned. I don't know what's in the water these days, but maybe you all should sit down in a comfy chair with your favorite cocktail or other drink and have a good listen to some music you love. There's way too much crankiness here.

So very true!

 

[Republicoftexas69]

One area missed in this video is that many manufacturers demand that their dealers provide the full level of support, expertise, and service for their product no matter how much discounting price factors in selling their product. Price, Quality, Service - choose any TWO.

Quality and Service is what I chose.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I’d research a thing called paragraphs, it might help you articulate an argument. I’m not going to read a OCD stream of consciousness rant.

Good luck to you.

Completely agree. Makes me ill when people cannot use the most basic of writing skills, sentence and paragraph structure.

 

[Pokey77]

I posted the video hoping this might start a conversation about the points Jay made, many good points, points that some of the younger members of WBF may not be familiar with such as the workings of the Industry, Whether or not one wants to deal with this and understand this is not under my control nor do I want to "rant" about how a business is structured and how it works.

Elliot, I appreciate this. I'm not sure a lot of us necessarily realized what you were trying to say in your original OP, but it would be a great idea to discuss the points Jay brought up in his video. I'm not here to advocate for anyone, but I am here to advocate for discussing these points, in a civilized manner, as they may help the hobby to be more transparent and to build a community where 'philes want to hang out and enjoy the company of others.

I basically left another forum I used to spend much time on. It had become so contentious, and there were so many trolls allowed to muck up the threads, that I needed a place to go. @Mike Lavigne was the impetus behind my migration here. He is always so welcoming and not only starts great threads, but contributes in a very cordial way. He loves audio and wants to share his experience, just like we do. So I'm really hoping that we all can do the same, cordiality is paramount to a well-functioning forum.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There's way too much crankiness here.

+1

 

[chuck]

Wow, what an assumptive guy you are Jeff... Bad form... Ive got dual Reel to Reel decks.. and not a BS Technics or Pioneer. Studer A80 with upgraded Flux Magnetics heads and upgraded electronics with outboard Nick Doshi Tape head preamp.. I bought out a studio vault from Hollywood, CA and have the ORIGINAL 2 inch 24 track session reels and the 2 channel mixdown tapes... Can you beat that with your "Cart, Arm and Phono stage".. NO you cant... so I compare my digital with the Highest level of Analog... Come see for yourself.. For those that have not started Vinyl, its a waste of time and money... I know what goes into getting it perfect and its a pain in the royal ass and not cheap.. Not to mention collecting Vinyl at this point which is 30 to 50 and up to $300 per album for good pressings... Id be a complete asshole to recommend this to my burgeoning audiophiles.. BUT, I sure could make great money at selling them all the kit, couldnt I ?? YES. so Im killing my income by recommending against it because I put the best interest of my clients first... Its why Im TOP Global seller for Playback Designs (Whom MoFi has recently bought A to D and D to A to archive thier Master Tapes) So again, MoFi Chose the same brand I sell for digital and I can compare it hand to hand real time against a Studer A80 with Doshi Pre and FM Heads, and my digital is indistinguishable from Master Tape.... Much less the lossy vinyl remasters made from the tapes... So go ahead Jeff talk all you want , you have no clue who I am or my history in the industry NOR my ability to back my mouth up.... I walk the walk my friend...

Agree with OCD on Playback and vinyl. What bugs me about Playback is they won't be at AXPONA.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Come to my place there Jeff and weep at how digital shreds the ass out of your beloved vinyl... I consistently get Vinyl guys over here that applaud my rig and say if they hadn't spent $100K on their TT and vinyl collection they would never do it over again... You simply have not heard digital done right .... ask Dr. Vinyl.... He said 2 things that stuck out. 1. You need to charge admission for these demos 2. This is the first time Ive heard that Orchestral piece where the system can reproduce 100% of the Orchestra.. bottom to top with complete balance..... Not my words, ask Jose...

Mike,

i'll take a piece of this.

--bring your Playback Designs over and we will do a direct head to head with my Wadax. i'm sure the Playback Designs is really fine digital. not dissing it. but that is the first step. we both have our opinions which is all they are until we do the compare. done that compare with the MSB Select II, others have done it with other digital top levels. not seen it done with the Playbacks. but all the others only had one result.

---then we will go direct from the winner to my vinyl. which will be superior to the digital.

---i know how that goes as i do it every day. and the vinyl when directly compared wins 95% of the time and it's not close on the better pressings (70% of my 12,000 pressings).

Wow, what an assumptive guy you are Jeff... Bad form... Ive got dual Reel to Reel decks.. and not a BS Technics or Pioneer. Studer A80 with upgraded Flux Magnetics heads and upgraded electronics with outboard Nick Doshi Tape head preamp.. I bought out a studio vault from Hollywood, CA and have the ORIGINAL 2 inch 24 track session reels and the 2 channel mixdown tapes... Can you beat that with your "Cart, Arm and Phono stage"..

what good will 24 track 2 inch do you? not relevant for our purposes other than for a door stop.

some of my vinyl beats some of my tape. you gotta listen case by case. the tape has to be very good to beat a top level pressing.

as far as tape, know the Studer, know the Doshi, know the Flux Magnetic heads, prefer my hot rodded ATR-102 with Flux Magnetic heads and the MR 70 pre's. on my better tapes it is superior to vinyl, but on many tapes the best vinyl is better or different/equal. only had the ATR-MR 70 for a short time and still need to do more compares, certainly this level tape performance is higher than my 3 Studer A-820's with the King Cello. might prefer your tape set-up too to what i had before. probably.

NO you cant... so I compare my digital with the Highest level of Analog... Come see for yourself.. For those that have not started Vinyl, its a waste of time and money... I know what goes into getting it perfect and its a pain in the royal ass and not cheap.. Not to mention collecting Vinyl at this point which is 30 to 50 and up to $300 per album for good pressings... Id be a complete asshole to recommend this to my burgeoning audiophiles.. BUT, I sure could make great money at selling them all the kit, couldnt I ?? YES. so Im killing my income by recommending against it because I put the best interest of my clients first... Its why Im TOP Global seller for Playback Designs (Whom MoFi has recently bought A to D and D to A to archive thier Master Tapes) So again, MoFi Chose the same brand I sell for digital and I can compare it hand to hand real time against a Studer A80 with Doshi Pre and FM Heads, and my digital is indistinguishable from Master Tape.... Much less the lossy vinyl remasters made from the tapes... So go ahead Jeff talk all you want , you have no clue who I am or my history in the industry NOR my ability to back my mouth up.... I walk the walk my friend...

love my vinyl, and i have my references too.

we can agree to disagree. but bluster does not replace experience. vinyl kicks ass. in a system with top level references for all the formats.

sounds like you need to upgrade your vinyl reference. it is not cutting it.

as far as MoFi and Playbacks, i get that. i know Andreas Koch, he has been a guest in my home. brilliant guy. i owned the first Playback Design retail unit back in 2005. it was my digital reference for 9 years. i respect that Andreas is a dsd expert, and that MoFi uses that for mastering. makes sense. but it's not proof of what is the best sounding dacs and servers. the recent MoFi pressings i own from the last 10 years which include the quad dsd step, are pretty 'meh' sounding. so whatever they are doing, not my cup of tea. i did hear the Playback Designs at the last Axpona and was impressed by what i heard. it certainly is very good. but it's not vinyl in respect to my reference for vinyl. maybe yours.

and if you really cannot hear a difference between the Playback Designs digital and the tape....well....er......something is not right somewhere. maybe the tape was sourced from the quad dsd file?

i do have a tape from a session where there was a quad dsd master and a 1/2" 15ips master also from the same mic feed. the tape wipes the floor with the digital in direct compare. not close. the quad dsd is very, very good....for sure. but is not the tape.

OTOH.....if i owned top level digital, jumping into vinyl or tape would be a question. the digital is good enough that you don't need analog. but analog does go to another level with the better media. but it's a hobby, and does not need to make sense, if we are having more fun.

 

[christoph]

Many of you - some of whom i have developed great respect for over the past year - are doing a solid job of reminding me why i left the on-line "community" of music and equipment lovers years ago, and make me question why I returned. I don't know what's in the water these days, but maybe you all should sit down in a comfy chair with your favorite cocktail or other drink and have a good listen to some music you love. There's way too much crankiness here.

Probably too much time over the Easter holidays after stressful times immediately before...?

 

[Robert Young]

Probably too much time over the Easter holidays after stressful times immediately before...?

Perhaps. But i also think it’s been building since Covid. Maybe one effect of an undiagnosed case of very long Covid is that the general level of maturity lowers and otherwise well-grounded adults get into big-DAC contests on-line. I am still gobsmacked at the cross-thread stalking perpetrated by those who can’t stand that not everyone agrees with their own sense of superiority.

More than a handful of folks in this thread alone ought to consider why Mike Lavigne is thought of as a model of gentlemanly good behavior. And then try to be more like Mike.