Herzan/Table Stable "Active" Isolation table.

[Tango]

TTs benefit from a variety of techniques to be isolated, I’d have thought 20mm Panzerholz sandwich would work for any tt.

For me, everything is guess work unless the manufacturer of tt recommended or until try it under your own tt.

Jarek and you are tight. Try it under your tt. If you dont like it, I am sure you can work something out with him.

Tang

 

[PeterA]

Herzan, in my opinion, has satisfied numerous hurdles. Herzan 1) makes sense to me in that I understand how it operates and what it is trying to achieve and how it undertakes the attempt; 2) is endorsed by both MikeL (in general) and by DDK (for tube electronics); and 3) makes sense to Jim White as a platform under the Io control unit.

If you can round up that kind of unanimous support for a particular brand and model of fancy fuses, I am all ears.

I will undoubtedly purchase after-market power cords, but I think it makes sense to have a working stereo system first.

However, I am conflicted about a Herzan under the American Sound turntable. David prefers his American Sound without an active isolation platform. Christian and Mike have had great success using a Herzan under their respective turntables, but I think that having the turntable in a separate room makes the acoustic feedback concern less urgent for me.

Ron, Has David tried his AS turntable on an active isolation platform? If so, which one and how did the sound change? I have not read that anywhere.

David, if you are reading this, it would be great to hear from you directly about this.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Tang, if it arises that tt isoln on Stacore is not positive, I have plenty of alternatives to put it to use. I remain confident in Jarek’s feedback that they haven’t once had a poor result.
Listen, Stacore is OT here, I’ll report on my experience on Stacore tt isoln In my own thread in the next few wks.

 

[Steve Williams]

Ron, Has David tried his AS turntable on an active isolation platform? If so, which one and how did the sound change? I have not read that anywhere.

David, if you are reading this, it would be great to hear from you directly about this.

when I was at his house I know that he he hadn't and wasn't a fan but remained big on his heavy steel racks of which he had one for each turntable

 

[Kingsrule]

The target market for the the Table Stable / Herzan active anti-vibration line is electron microscopes and laser interferometry in laboratory environments. These locations do not have the powerful sound waves coming from speaker drivers and sub woofers and there is no correlation between the building vibrations and what is being displayed on the microscope.

Our audio sound room is a completely different situation where the sound waves in the air hit the Audio electronics and also the rooms walls and floor which in turn vibrate the electronics in a manner highly correlated to the original signal. These music signal correlated disturbances cause smearing that is very audible in high end systems.

All electronics are vibration sensitive, it’s only a question of degree. I don’t think there is a person on this forum who has not heard the difference a footer makes to the sonics of a piece of equipment. So not so surprisingly, reducing these music correlated motions reduces smearing, improves intelligibility and allows better definition of spacial cues.

We can make the offer to convert a owners stock TS-140 or 150 to external power supply and try out the Tana LPS. If the sonic change is not their liking, we will put the SMPS back. If and when TS Owner wants to upgrade to a Tana LPS, we can also offer to change out the stock 6 mm toplate for the 20 mm aluminium and Panzerholz sandwich.

Note, there will be some turntables that will sound better with the 20 mm sandwich, and others which sound better on the stock 6 mm. We have too few TT data points to confidently predict which type of TT will do well on the sandwich and which won’t. However we are confident that all DAC’s, preamps and power amps will sound significantly better with the sandwich top plate, we have tested plenty

Not if u put all of your gear in a different room from the speakers.....only the best systems are set up this way......

 

[spiritofmusic]

Kingsrule, once I get the system out of the room, I’ll have an assistant who can lower the tonearm without me having to run back in the room, avoiding any missing of the start of first track on lp, and making sure arm is lifted the moment lp side comes to a close.
An essential requirement if you have to go thru a door twice minimum on having gear outside the listening room.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Ron, Has David tried his AS turntable on an active isolation platform? If so, which one and how did the sound change? I have not read that anywhere.

David, if you are reading this, it would be great to hear from you directly about this.

David has not tried it.

his first encounter will be at Christian's place in the next few weeks at the installation of the American Sound tt. the Herzan rack is in transit to Christian's now. don't know the AS ETA, but David will be there. just that it's suppose to be early December sometime.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, you’re keeping us all on a string LOL.
What do we want?
Tana feedback.
When do we want it?
Now.
Well, as soon as, please.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, you’re keeping us all on a string LOL.
What do we want?
That Tana feedback.
When do we want it?
Now.
Well, as soon as, please.

Marc, today sometime I will get going on it. I'm processing.

 

[spiritofmusic]

That’s ok Mike.
I’m just whipping up the locals.

 

[sbo6]

Thanks Ron, before it was deemed it could be used for audio or after?

 

[Ron Resnick]

David has not tried it.

his first encounter will be at Christian's place in the next few weeks at the installation of the American Sound tt. the Herzan rack is in transit to Christian's now. don't know the AS ETA, but David will be there. just that it's suppose to be early December sometime.

My mistake for assuming David has tried it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thanks Ron, before it was deemed it could be used for audio or after?

I am sorry, but I do not understand.

 

[sbo6]

The target market for the the Table Stable / Herzan active anti-vibration line is electron microscopes and laser interferometry in laboratory environments. These locations do not have the powerful sound waves coming from speaker drivers and sub woofers and there is no correlation between the building vibrations and what is being displayed on the microscope.

Our audio sound room is a completely different situation where the sound waves in the air hit the Audio electronics and also the rooms walls and floor which in turn vibrate the electronics in a manner highly correlated to the original signal. These music signal correlated disturbances cause smearing that is very audible in high end systems.

All electronics are vibration sensitive, it’s only a question of degree. I don’t think there is a person on this forum who has not heard the difference a footer makes to the sonics of a piece of equipment. So not so surprisingly, reducing these music correlated motions reduces smearing, improves intelligibility and allows better definition of spacial cues.

We can make the offer to convert a owners stock TS-140 or 150 to external power supply and try out the Tana LPS. If the sonic change is not their liking, we will put the SMPS back. If and when TS Owner wants to upgrade to a Tana LPS, we can also offer to change out the stock 6 mm toplate for the 20 mm aluminium and Panzerholz sandwich.

Note, there will be some turntables that will sound better with the 20 mm sandwich, and others which sound better on the stock 6 mm. We have too few TT data points to confidently predict which type of TT will do well on the sandwich and which won’t. However we are confident that all DAC’s, preamps and power amps will sound significantly better with the sandwich top plate, we have tested plenty

That's great to hear there’s an option to try it and keep it if you like it. Too bad more vendors don’t provide this option.

Also, I have to disagree with your statement about no correlation, there are clear correlations between its primary scientific applications and audio. At the end of the day it’s all about reducing / eliminating would – be vibrations to the component of choice. You could argue the primary frequencies and source of such frequencies are different but the device purpose is the same whether it results in optical or sonic benefits.

 

[sbo6]

I am sorry, but I do not understand.

I'm just wondering if these originally scientific - purposed stability products offered a LPSU before the audio community got involved or not.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Herzan has offered an outboard power supply for some time. It was not offered in response to Christian's and Mike's original purchases of TS-140s, I believe.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So I guess the q then is, what does Tana bring differently to the table with its more bespoke psu than the more standard factory option Herzan plus LPSU?
Obviously the 20mm Panzerholz sandwich top surface. But Eurodriver and Taiko have spent more time talking about their psu than the effects of the Panzerholz.

 

[EuroDriver]

Also, I have to disagree with your statement about no correlation, there are clear correlations between its primary scientific applications and audio. At the end of the day it’s all about reducing / eliminating would – be vibrations to the component of choice. You could argue the primary frequencies and source of such frequencies are different but the device purpose is the same whether it results in optical or sonic benefits.

Sorry for being not clear enough about my description of non correlation of disturbances for scientific visual applications. Let me try again

For a scanning electronic microscopic, the building vibrations and foot falls are not synchronised with the picture scanning frequency nor the pattern of light and dark. The disturbance is random and uncorrellated with the picture information.

For the audio applications the room vibration and the air pressure on the equipment is a) in time with the music, and b) at the same frequencies as the music signal. These vibrational disturbances are very correlated with the music. There are of course also random vibrations from feet and neighbourhood vibrations, but less impactful than the music correlated disturbances

 

[sbo6]

Sorry for being not clear enough about my description of non correlation of disturbances for scientific visual applications. Let me try again

For a scanning electronic microscopic, the building vibrations and foot falls are not synchronised with the picture scanning frequency nor the pattern of light and dark. The disturbance is random and uncorrellated with the picture information.

For the audio applications the room vibration and the air pressure on the equipment is a) in time with the music, and b) at the same frequencies as the music signal. These vibrational disturbances are very correlated with the music. There are of course also random vibrations from feet and neighbourhood vibrations, but less impactful than the music correlated disturbances

Understood, but both situations don't dismiss the application of the device - eliminating /minimizing vibration placed on it's surface plate. I think I'm inadvertently building a case for it's multi functionality.

Also, I would think vibrations in syncopation with the music as less of an issue compared to bass mode issues (especially with equipment close to a boundary) and the pervasive pounding and pressure build up at such room - resonating frequencies.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So if I may make a humorous point.
These lab guys are beavering away all day w their electron scanning microscopes on Herzans, listening to music “silently” on their IPods, and getting great, jitter free and non smeared photos that we all see on the Herzan website.
A new member of staff starts, and he insists on a BoomBox playing rap and uber deep bass dance music loud and clear in the lab.
Are we saying these Herzans would struggle in this environment to get the same clear photos? Or that these off-board LPSUs would help the cause?