adding a 5th Taiko Tana/Herzan TS-140 active isolation unit.

spiritofmusic

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Well, Stacore footers under my Entreq and RollerBlocks under my Furutechs distribution strip make a worthwhile difference.

Mike is adamant Tanas under his MSB psu's won't happen. But as he's finding as he closes the loop, the closer he gets, the bigger the uptick. Surely the dac psu's are as worthy of isolating as anything.
 
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adyc

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I know I have mentioned this before but I truly believe that your system might get another large leapfrog if Emile / Taiko team produce a dedicated speaker Daiza for your system as this is surely the final frontier :cool:

I would definitely not recommend it for main tower. Adding the platform will change the tweeter height. The outcome is really unknown and not easily reversible. His speaker positioning is optimum . I would really leave it as it is.
 

spiritofmusic

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A Daiza on it's own should be fine. I've installed 1.5" thick Panzerholz on 0.5" thick Symposium Svelte under my Zus, and the uptick is way greater than any disadvantage from raising tweeters 2" total.

Tanas under subs towers should present no problem.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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I would definitely not recommend it for main tower. Adding the platform will change the tweeter height. The outcome is really unknown and not easily reversible. His speaker positioning is optimum . I would really leave it as it is.

great points. driver <-> floor as well as driver <-> ear relationships are critical.

speaker footers are out there since solidity and height are maintained. i could see some sort of footer based on the Dazia footer work being adapted for speakers. right now i use the Wave Kinetics 2NS footers which i like.

http://wavekinetics.com/products/2ns/?doing_wp_cron=1556231012.5780949592590332031250
 

spiritofmusic

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Mike, all I can say is that the exceptional effects of Panzerholz under my Zus have totally obviated any negative in raising the tweeters. My Zus are quite literally a different, wholly better spkr, Panzerholz being so critical. I could not go back.

Surely it's worth a punt.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Mike, all I can say is that the exceptional effects of Panzerholz under my Zus have totally obviated any negative in raising the tweeters. My Zus are quite literally a different, wholly better spkr, Panzerholz being so critical. I could not go back.

Surely it's worth a punt.

a loose platform under a 7 foot tall, 750 pound slim narrow tower is asking for trouble. and i'm not going there. that platform would have to be engineered for that particular tower for me to think about it.

under a modestly sized speaker it's a choice to consider....and i have no doubt it might be a good choice. i have as much panzerholtz in my system as anyone.
 

spiritofmusic

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Fair enough Mike, it's your head on the block LOL.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Ron Resnick

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bonzo75

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Mike, all I can say is that the exceptional effects of Panzerholz under my Zus have totally obviated any negative in raising the tweeters. My Zus are quite literally a different, wholly better spkr, Panzerholz being so critical. I could not go back.

Surely it's worth a punt.

Marc, now that they are a different speaker, do you like them or don't you
 

the sound of Tao

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spiritofmusic

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Audiophile Bill

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I would definitely not recommend it for main tower. Adding the platform will change the tweeter height. The outcome is really unknown and not easily reversible. His speaker positioning is optimum . I would really leave it as it is.

“Not easily reversible” - you make it out that this is some kind of modification to the speakers lol. You just remove the platform if you don’t like it. Admittedly they are very heavy speakers so you will need some help.

Don’t worry - hopefully such experiments can be conducted on less difficult speakers to move first.
 

jazdoc

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Had a short listening session at Mike's last evening. A few preliminary thoughts with the caveats that I had just finished a week of 1-10pm shifts, it was a short session and there have been a few interim changes (as usual :p):
1. Noise floor is reduced. ML's system has always been quiet, but the background is "blacker"
2. Everything percussive i.e. piano and drum kits are more realistic. The leading edge of the notes is quicker and faster resulting in a more natural presentation. The startle factor of the drum intro on Led Zep's "In My Time of Dying" literally made me jump
3. As a result of the above, the sense of dynamic range is really improved and ML can dial back the volume; yet it sounds much more life like.
4. The system tonal balance is unchanged except in two respects: high frequency "hash" and bass articulation are improved. The sound is unflappable. Previously "In My Time of Dying" used to get a bit confused...no more. In fact, I heard guitar bits "for the first time"
5. Mike asked me if things sounded more "like tubes". Actually, one of my initial impressions was that you can really tell that this is solid state...awesome solid state.

Congrats my friend.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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Had a short listening session at Mike's last evening with a few preliminary thoughts:
1. Noise floor is reduced. ML's system has always been quiet, but the background is "blacker"
2. Everything percussive i.e. piano and drum kits are more realistic. The leading edge of the notes is quicker and faster resulting in a more natural presentation. The startle factor of the drum intro on Led Zep's "In My Time of Dying" literally made me jump
3. As a result of the above, the sense of dynamic range is really improved and ML can dial back the volume; yet it sounds much more life like.
4. The system tonal balance is unchanged except in two respects: high frequency "hash" and bass articulation are improved. The sound is unflappable. Previously "In My Time of Dying" used to get a bit confused...no more. In fact, I heard guitar bits "for the first time"
5. Mike asked me if things sounded more "like tubes". Actually, one of my initial impressions was that you can really tell that this is solid state...awesome solid state.

Congrats my friend.

thank you Mark, for the kind words and your time last night, particularly with your trip looming. it meant a lot to me for you to do that.:)

and not that i'm not insane;) on some levels, but it was very helpful to know we are hearing similar changes.
 
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Kingsrule

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I hate "does it sound like tubes", "sound analogue", "sound digital", "sound like solid state" perspective/questions.

IMO the lines between formats is so diminished the relevant question is "how close is it to the real thing"
 

Mike Lavigne

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i found some additional performance from my digital this morning with changes to my passive treatments.

i had my SGM server, and 2 MSB power supplies all sitting on Dazia's with the Trinia decoupling footers underneath. in some recent communications from Ed and Emile, they commented that the Trinia works better between the Dazia and gear, with the Dazia footers underneath. makes sense, since the Dazia with footers excell at vertical noise attenuation, and the Trinia excell in the horizontal.

i tried it on all three pieces and found immediate, noticeable, welcomed sonic benefits in added ambient information, bass articulation and ease......and overall focus. more relaxed and better flow and cohesion.

suppose i should have figured that out myself, but i had not.

thanks guys.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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I hate "does it sound like tubes", "sound analogue", "sound digital", "sound like solid state" perspective/questions.

IMO the lines between formats is so diminished the relevant question is "how close is it to the real thing"

i knew when i read jazdoc's comment about my 'sound like tubes' question that in his whole post that little nugget would get someone's attention and they would not be able to resist commenting......without any mention of the rest of the post.

it's how things are.

which now requires me to explain 'why' i might ask jazdoc that.

last fall jazdoc had not visited me for 3-4 months since i had moved the Tana TS-140 active platforms from under my turntable and server to the amps. after listening for awhile he commented, without any solicitation, that with the active Tana platforms under the amps the system sounded more like tubes. it was his thought at that time. and the only reason i asked that question last night.

even though i'm a tube loving guy where 8 of my 10 favorite amps use tubes, i prefer a solid state amp with tube attributes for my particular system and music preferences. i don't think of my system presentation as anything but music.

but i did wonder what jazdoc was thinking.
 
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microstrip

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I hate "does it sound like tubes", "sound analogue", "sound digital", "sound like solid state" perspective/questions.

IMO the lines between formats is so diminished the relevant question is "how close is it to the real thing"

IMHO "How close it is to the real thing" is too subjective to be a question. "Closeness" to the real thing depends more on listener than equipment and is meaningless unless fully documented, something that most of the time does not happen in the lenghth of a forum post. So we center our discussions on sound types - perhaps not perfect, but we manage to communicate around these perspectives, although they are just stereotypes that can sometimes be tiresome. :)
 

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