floating speaker cables.....on the cheap

bonzo75

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...and my system is not in Mike's hyper resolution league.
 

Cellcbern

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i've been using the Shunyata 'dark matter' lifters all around for about 8 years and i have liked my system balance. when i first inserted them i had no negative perceptions, they added a degree of 'life' but never any tonal tilt. before the Shunyata i used the big ceramic mushroom type which were fine. i'm not strongly for or against cable lifters.

but those were both 'solid' products and were grounded. just provided a more consistent environment but not a suspension. suspension takes things to another level of effect.

my personal push to try this 'float' approach was to optimize my active decoupling. otherwise i would never have tried it. and in the end it might be better. we will see.
I had been using the Shunyata lifters for years and then added some Audioquest Fog Lifters. After listening I ended up with a mix of the two. Not sure there's any other way but trial and error with cable lifters.
 

Cellcbern

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previously i had used the top of line Combak Harmonix (i think model RF-909x) Footers on my MM3's which i really liked (not cheap). when i switched to the twin tower MM7's i decided to use the Wave Kinetics 2NS as they had been used by my speaker designer. i like what they do, my bass, and transients, are finely detailed and the speakers disappear. speaker resolution does not seem to be limiting. i've not tried anything else for almost 10 years now.

designing speaker footers would be a challenge since speakers have such a wide variance of weight. each of my 4 towers weigh 750 pounds and are 7 feet tall. not trivial to deal with.
Wellfloat footers seem to be the top choice now among the Audio Exotics crowd for large speakers/heavy components, having supplanted Arya Revopods:


Interestingly the Wellfloat isolation feet appear to have been developed for concert pianos and other musical instruments.

Haven't tried any Wellfloat products.
 
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PeterA

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Yes Peter, the Tana is based on a Herzan that as we all know is lab-grade super sensitive. The issue is not so much movement or vibrations from the cable, it's just that cables "pull" away from the amp and thus the platform. Anything that alleviates this "traction" will allow the Tana ie Herzan to work as it was designed.
I found the Minus-K that I auditioned absolutely was scuppered by certain cables dressing positions...and my system is not in Mike's hyper resolution league.

I’m not sure what the minus-K has to do with Mike’s installation or issues. It is still not clear to me if Mike’s amplifiers present an even or balanced load to the active platform and if that even matters with the Tana. I thought that is what he was trying to address by floating the speaker cables.

Time will tell as things settle in and he gets a better handle on the sonics. It’s always interesting how impressions can change radically from one day to the next.
 

spiritofmusic

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Peter, I had the same issues where assymetric loading of cables on my demo Minus-K made the sound significantly worse, ditto on the Kuraka active Herzan clone platform.
I've never had anywhere near the same issue on cable dressing breaking a sound on my Stacore and Symposium supports, nor on the GPA rack that I trialled.
My guess remains that "drag" of the cables away from the Tana introduces enough extra labour for the platform to deal with, that suspending the cables mainly eradicates.
Hence his results.
 
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Ron Resnick

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A $240 tweak which improves the sound of a state-of-the-art, cost-no-object system is my kind of tweak!
 
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tima

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I've never had anywhere near the same issue on cable dressing breaking a sound on my Stacore and Symposium supports, nor on the GPA rack that I trialled.
My guess remains that "drag" of the cables away from the Tana introduces enough extra labour for the platform to deal with, that suspending the cables mainly eradicates.

I think you're saying that this tweak is more appropriate when equipment sits on a vibrating platform than when its sits on a platform that does not vibrate.

Evolution Acoustics says: "These are probably some of the heaviest and largest cables in the industry with an extraordinary amount of copper."

I can imagine how adding a heavy load of wire cantilevered off the back of an amplifier might change the center of gravity relation of the amp to the vibrating platform. Maybe the vibrating platform was acting incorrectly and actually introducing or increasing the amplitude of vibrations going into the amp (rather than ameliorating them) until that load was diminished by floating the cables. Hanging the heavy cable from springs might have also worked, perhaps even better. The tremendous sonic changes heard could be a result of the platform acting nominally.
 

Mike Lavigne

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update; on Tuesday i removed the middle of three towel racks on each side so the middle part of the speaker cables are now resting on a Shunyata Dark Matter elevator, removing much of the float, but not eliminating it. the speaker cables are still attaining some degree of float near the amps and near the speakers. i also moved my tweeter settings back to wide open to make sure i have a good starting point.

since then just been listening and seeing where this is going. this might be the 'just right' place as my initial impressions are very positive. i'm getting the 'life' and 'action' but zero glare or etch. maybe the very slightest bit of tonal shift, but maybe none at all. where i'm over the moon is the subtle way the bass texture and energy is crazy amazing.

i'm just going to ride this horse for a time. no hurry......

one box of the Audioquest Fog Lifters did arrive, another should be here next week. i will use those to experiment with my interconnect layout.
Evolution Acoustics says: "These are probably some of the heaviest and largest cables in the industry with an extraordinary amount of copper."
no doubt. and agree that what 'floating' cables might do is very system/support relative. 'active' needs more care to work right. but i think the same principles do apply if you use any type of decoupling approach. cable management does matter, the more dynamic and high resolution you play, the more it's a factor.

and heavy or very stiff cables have more of an effect. this is an easy thing to try and then step back and listen. it might be that simple last thing to add a bit of life to what you are hearing.
 
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gfroman

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Evolution Acoustics says: "These are probably some of the heaviest and largest cables in the industry with an extraordinary amount of copper."

I am getting in a pair of these monsters shortly.
Anxious to hear any improvements over my existing Transparent Reference XL speaker cables.......
 

Mike Lavigne

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Evolution Acoustics says: "These are probably some of the heaviest and largest cables in the industry with an extraordinary amount of copper."

I am getting in a pair of these monsters shortly.
Anxious to hear any improvements over my existing Transparent Reference XL speaker cables.......
10 years ago i switched from my previous long term reference Transparent Opus MM speaker cables, to the Evolution Acoustics DRSC (double run speaker cables). the DRSC was the same wire i had inside my then MM3's. it was mostly better than the TA Opus, much more 'lit' and open on top (and a better system match for me); in contrast the Opus was 'dark' and slightly closed in. the Opus MM did have a special sexy-ness on the bass that i did miss.

then a year later i upgraded the DRSC to the EA TRSC (triple run speaker cables) which was another clear step up. and much heavier and stiffer. i got back the bass textures and weight that i had missed from the Opus MM.

congrats on the EA speaker cables. i will watch for your feedback.
 
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Mike Lavigne

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i'm listening to one of my 'go-to's' for system emotional connection, and i think we are in a new better place. this is the Quartetto Italiano Beethoven Middle Quartets box set on Philips (6703 082) on the CS Port LFT1. no lifted tonal balance; just more finely rendered textures, increased harmonic sparkle and more energy projected from the action. more bass growl and sense of air. it's more lively. more subtle. overall better nuance and flow. i'm swept along more by the improved micro-dynamics. sweet!

this is the most subtle of music, and it seems this change has not detracted in any way i can tell.

promising. :)
 
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Mike Lavigne

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another day of listening, both digital and vinyl, and the more i hear the more i like this change and boost in system performance. yesterday jazdoc came over and we played with tubes with the Aesthetix Io Eclipse phono. he has been a frequent visitor to my room so has a good feel for it's plus's and minus's. he makes some positive comments about the change in my system here;

 
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Mike Lavigne

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early this morning, and even much more evidently this evening, the effect of 'settling' of my modified cable 'float' seems to have pushed things even further. i had hints of this before, but the last 2 hours i've had the most delightful digital listening session i've ever had, and touched a hundred+ reference tracks. like i broke a code, or crossed a threshold to another level. i need to step back, go at this again another night or three to see if my reactions are similar. or if it's some fleeting moonbeam that tempers itself.....and i come back to earth.
 
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ACHiPo

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Mike,
Very interesting! Thanks!
 

Armsan

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10 years ago i switched from my previous long term reference Transparent Opus MM speaker cables, to the Evolution Acoustics DRSC (double run speaker cables). the DRSC was the same wire i had inside my then MM3's. it was mostly better than the TA Opus, much more 'lit' and open on top (and a better system match for me); in contrast the Opus was 'dark' and slightly closed in. the Opus MM did have a special sexy-ness on the bass that i did miss.

then a year later i upgraded the DRSC to the EA TRSC (triple run speaker cables) which was another clear step up. and much heavier and stiffer. i got back the bass textures and weight that i had missed from the Opus MM.

congrats on the EA speaker cables. i will watch for your feedback.
Mike, please tell me, how long are your interconnect cables, from the pre to the powers? Which brand, and are they costume made? Thank you.
 

Kingrex

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A little late to rhe party. My 2 cents. People have touched on this. When a cable is on the floor, its getting some degree of dampening. Or picking up floor vibration. When hanging, it may act as a guitar string. When lifting a cable, it may be better to attached a damping material to the cable. Of course this could go either way.. Good/bad. lead core rope could be laid along the cord and wrapped down with a twine or maybe a small diameter rubber tube or yoga bands. This is just a thought.

I get where mike is coming from on the reduction of strain at connection points. If not for sonics, its a good idea for maintaining a solid mechanical connection. A cable pulling at a connection point is creating high and low pressure points as it tries to hinge. Over time this may deform the metal connection points. It may also loosen the internal connection in the cable of the conductor to jack.
 
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thedudeabides

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I am also a fan of CD cases. Really cheap and they definetly work. How many folks have tried this option? Not many I suspect. :cool:
 
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