I don't think it is the whole point. But to deny it's importance is also not right, IMO. No, never tried this BACCH approach.
David Karmeli’s Bionor/Lamm/AS-2000 Audio System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
How do you know they are not different only due to experiences of the systems? Peter has not heard Brad's system (bless him) and Brad has not heard Peter's, nor David's. You can argue the above only if all the people who base their template on live acoutsical, listen to the same system and agree if it is good or not - and they don't have other agendas
the best realistic recording was invented by Decca the "Decca Tree" in my opinion. captures the spatial sound of an orchestra very well. many have copied it.
Center
Left Right
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indeed, the decca tree is a great set up
Yet we can discuss recordings until we're green around the nose, the thing is that the recording does not change when replayed with a vintage or modern speaker.
Folks might find this article of interest:
"The Greatest Recording Ever Made": The Decca/Solti "Ring" Cycle Revisited - PART 2: Creating a "Theatre of the Mind"
A deep dive into the story of how Decca came to make the first studio recording of Wagner's epic cycle "Der Ring des Nibelungen"
trackingangle.com
+1
I just wanted to express that the close positioning of the center+left and right microphones creates the illusion of an orchestra in normal living room sizes very well. You have to compliment Roy Wallace and his team, they're really smart guys. Center direct sound and left/right spatial sound, angle can be changed depending on the size of the orchestra.
Brad, This is not true. I do get clear imaging and spatial relationships. I already wrote that I hear information about location and scale. That means musician position relative to each other, size of musicians and the space in which they are performing. There is a lot of information in those grooves, extracted and presented in my room. There is mass, dimensionality and depth and width. It all varies by recording, as does degree of ambiance. There is a sense of presence. That is all imaging and soundstaging and spatial relationships. In fact these aspects of the presentation are more convincing than they ever were with my old, much more conventional and mainstream system.
My old system tended to create pinpoint imaging and outlines because of accessories, wires and speaker position. The specific components also played a role. These artifacts were greatly diminished when I adjusted the set up of that system. As my goals changed, I understood that I needed to change my direction.
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I didn't see this post, as I have you on ignore. Someone alerted me to this post by you so I'm going to respond.
I asked David for his opinions when he first joined WBF. Just like I've asked opinions of many people on this forum; I like to solicit opinions from multiple people, including you. I don't glom onto one single guru as I believe ears are subjective.
Once I realized that all of David's advice seem to correlate with products he sold, it was obvious to me that he was just another dealer peddling his goods. Once he established himself on WBF and gained a willing set of disciples/customers, he started posting his political opinions on Covid, politics, and vaccines. Not for me.
Jeff that is very shortsighted .
Off course if someone posts a long time on WBF some posts will be not about HIFI
David had heaps of knowledge and stuck to his vision .
Absolutely a miss for this forum , there are heaps of dealers these days who peddle their stuff but contribute only in commercial sense .
Okay his views against cables and power conditioners ( cat litterboxes) where a bit rude but thats all.
If someone sees/ saw him as a guru that is his / her problem but he himself was not like that
Off course if someone posts a long time on WBF some posts will be not about HIFI
David had heaps of knowledge and stuck to his vision .
Absolutely a miss for this forum , there are heaps of dealers these days who peddle their stuff but contribute only in commercial sense .
Okay his views against cables and power conditioners ( cat litterboxes) where a bit rude but thats all.
If someone sees/ saw him as a guru that is his / her problem but he himself was not like that
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I agree 100%, he stuck to his vision of recommending what he sold.
When a member in a wheel chair asked David to recommend his favorite preamp with a remote, he recommended the non-remote controlled Lamm (which he sells) with interconnects long enough to reach his listening position.
and wood (unless it was his wood
), and Japanese cartridges, and streaming digital, and........(hard to keep track of it all).......You are not the first to put me on ignore. Frankly, I wish some others ignored my posts, instead of giggling and nipping at ankles. I am surprised to see you on a thread about David Karmeli's system. I suppose your friend can notify you of this response.
You can read in my two system threads about the four main influences on my audio pursuits. David is hardly a "single guru". I disagree with your characterization that David's advice seems to correlate with products he sells. Yes, he sells turntables and some vintage speakers. He is a dealer, as are many here and elsewhere. Like you seem to, I also appreciate the help of those who know more than I.
David helped me to completely alter the set up and resulting presentation of my old system, long before I bought anything from him. In fact, I approached him to see if he could locate and sell me a Micro Seiki SX 8000 II turntable. That resulted in an invitation to visit him. While there, he did not try to sell me anything. I asked him to sell me stuff. How ironic.
David offered to help me with aspects of my system which he does not sell. My entire electrical delivery and grounding system is the result of his free advice. David did not sell me any of my eight cartridges, any of my wires, or my rack and amp stands. In fact, we discussed their design as he developed his own rack system and we experimented concurrently and exchanged information. He has even recommended where and how to buy other electronics and speakers for a second system, none of which I would buy from him. One of the most valuable things I learned from David is cartridge set up, again, shared with me out of friendship during a visit to his home. David chooses whom to help and with whom he shares his experience and knowledge. We all do the same. Many enthusiasts around the world have benefitted from his generosity. He helped you for a while. At one time, you even acknowledged it to me. Anyway, you announced your return to the forum as you celebrated David's departure.
Well … partially correct , He generously threw In one of your cartridges … a $30 Ortofon SL-15 as a sweetener against the $100.000 + turntable that he sold you.
” “ In the next few days, I will install a classic vintage cartridge that ddk gave me as a gift with the new table.”
Do not forget about his TubeTrap comments. Those were classics.
Yes, he still has heaps of knowledge and sticks to his vision. I will learn more about that vision in the next few days. Only those who gaze from afar and seem haunted refer to David Karmeli as other people's guru. No, he is not like that at all.
At a real concert when you close your eyes can you perceive the volume of space a performer occupies and where they are located on stage? If yes, your mind is building the same “hologram” as listening to a stereo that is adept at giving you the same perception. When you are looking at the performers, your direct vision is building that model…reality as we perceive it is ALL in the mind. True reality we have no idea what it is…
the mind is indeed building a similar picture (I'd not call what I perceive ina concert hall as hologram at all), yet the way different systems do that is differing...and for me some ways work better than others, for others it'll be the other way around. I find phase/time coherence to be of great importance, as well as dynamics integrated in time across the bandwidth. I reckon it's in that domain where the major differences in approach hit home.
more so than most of what I heard at High End Munich last year...
I'll go for the setup I tested in my prototype, full range and a super tweeter rather than the 500Hz higher order crossover the horn.
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