Videos of Acoustically-Coupled Audio Recordings

[hopkins]

My very successful effort at 36 Hz - the main resonance of my very solid (two feet stone walls) room.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/diaphragmatic-versus-membrane-bass-traps.7710/

Without them I could not use large speakers. The microphone was not level calibrated, top is around 90 dB.

This is getting off topic, but it is very interesting for me, so I'll allow myself to reply, first to say that I appreciate the links, thanks.

Funny you mention membrane bass traps because that is something I've been looking into recently. I am going to take my time though - I have made a lot of changes recently and need to live with what I have for some time. Another forum member also suggested a design that I can easily test myself (membrane traps are beyond my DIY skills, and I don't want to commit to a purchase yet). I'll report back at some point.

 

[PeterA]

Timestamp: Sep 21, 2021

Timestamp: June 5, 2023

Many seem to grapple with and often times argue against in-room videos due to what we’re able to hear / not hear in these in-room videos.

IMO, we do similar grappling with our main systems - just not to the same degree which makes sense since in-room videos give us less to work with than an actual in-room presentation. There’s no denying that.

Nevertheless, as these two video may show, it’s not so easy to always discern sonic differences with in-room videos – unless perhaps some of us possess a keen sense of hearing and/or listening skills.

For example. Above are two videos of the…

• same artist, song, and recording,
• same room,
• same room furnishings, (I replaced a leather club chair and ottoman)
• same equipment, (though this week I’m playing with a new product)
• same iPhone/Shure mic,
• roughly same iPhone/Shure mic location,
• same system and speaker locations,
• roughly same playback volume
• roughly same recording mic gain db levels,
• even the same lighting

However, given that the top video is timestamped Sept 21, 2021 and the other June 5, 2023, I’d venture I’ve experienced well over 75 small but still distinct sonic differences including a handful of not-so-small sonic differences since that Sept 21, 2021 timestamp. FWIW as a reference, I’d estimate that 5 of these small but still distinct differences might equate to the sonic differences between a single reasonable ic cable swap.

Anyway, I think these two videos recorded about 17 months apart offer a pretty good idea what at least I might expect to hear when attempting to hear distinctions between potential sonic differences.

But this is probably as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as one could hope for and there are sonic differences. And yes, there may be a few hot spots in the new video due to the new product.

Stehno, This is a popular song often used to demonstrate audio systems, though I have not heard it for a while. I took your video advice and turned the speakers all the way up, as loud as I could, same with my headphones, to crank this recording to your recommended volume level to be sure to hear it as you intend. I could not listen for long at this level, so I turned it down a bit, but still loud. At this level, I hear a hissing sound, like noise floor, or tape hiss. It is distracting but different from vinyl noise. I think you play digital which in theory should be silent or certainly quiet. What is this noise and do you hear it in the room when playing at your loud volume? It is more noticeable in video two.

Aside from that noise floor, both videos sound clean and dynamic. There is excessive sibilance on her voice and a lot of processing. This is a very specific type of sound often used to demonstrate attributes. People like it. It is high in contrast, very black and white. I think it comes across in your system videos. The voice is very forward while the instruments are quite recessed. The piano is in the middle. There is a whitish splashy character to the cymbals. They sound flat.

Video one has less noise, video two is less flat sounding. It is interesting how they sound different and that you noticed over 75 small differences between the two. I only heard a few. Are these changes you hear from your extreme pressure clamping racks which continue to change the sound you hear for many months or a year?

The perspective is different. The camera seems much closer in video one and further back, like your other videos in video two. Perhaps that is why video one sounds flatter to me and two less flat. Maybe I hear more room influence in video two. Those sub woofers have a lot of excursion, like your other pop/rock videos, but I do not hear a lot of low bass articulation. Where is the weight and body to the sax, piano, and bass? I have seen LPs of this recording, but I do not know if it is analog or digital. The two videos have a distinct digital character to the presentation. People have commented on how the tone difference with the Shure mic compared to the iPhone mic.

Thank you for posting the comparison. It’s very interesting to hear the sound of your system through your videos. It’s quite a different presentation from some of the other videos on the thread.

 

[hopkins]

Stehno, This is a popular song often used to demonstrate audio systems, though I have not heard it for a while. I took your video advice and turned the speakers all the way up, as loud as I could, same with my headphones, to crank this recording to your recommended volume level to be sure to hear it as you intend. I could not listen for long at this level, so I turned it down a bit, but still loud. At this level, I hear a hissing sound, like noise floor, or tape hiss. It is distracting but different from vinyl noise. I think you play digital which in theory should be silent or certainly quiet. What is this noise and do you hear it in the room when playing at your loud volume? It is more noticeable in video two.

Aside from that noise floor, both videos sound clean and dynamic. There is excessive sibilance on her voice and a lot of processing. This is a very specific type of sound often used to demonstrate attributes. People like it. It is high in contrast, very black and white. I think it comes across in your system videos. The voice is very forward while the instruments are quite recessed. The piano is in the middle. There is a whitish splashy character to the cymbals. They sound flat.

Video one has less noise, video two is less flat sounding. It is interesting how they sound different and that you noticed over 75 small differences between the two. I only heard a few. Are these changes you hear from your extreme pressure clamping racks which continue to change the sound you hear for many months or a year?

The perspective is different. The camera seems much closer in video one and further back, like your other videos in video two. Perhaps that is why video one sounds flatter to me and two less flat. Maybe I hear more room influence in video two. Those sub woofers have a lot of excursion, like your other pop/rock videos, but I do not hear a lot of low bass articulation. Where is the weight and body to the sax, piano, and bass? I have seen LPs of this recording, but I do not know if it is analog or digital. The two videos have a distinct digital character to the presentation.

You make good points that I did not pick up on, and they also emphasize the potential difficulties of making comparisons with recordings as very small changes in the recording setup (mic placement,etc...) can interfere.

 

[hopkins]

...I hear a hissing sound, like noise floor, or tape hiss. It is distracting but different from vinyl noise. I think you play digital which in theory should be silent or certainly quiet. What is this noise and do you hear it in the room when playing at your loud volume? It is more noticeable in video two.

Hissing frequently happens with microphones. You can clearly hear it at the beginning of my videos before the music begins.

Vis à vis the track (which I have now listened to on Qobuz (https://open.qobuz.com/track/3404363), I can see how you could have difficulty at high volume - for example the saxophone (?) solo starting at 4:50 - that is not Sonny Rollins

 

[RCanelas]

Hope it is not too late to join the Sonny Rollins party.

As I'm getting ready to ship out the Ellipticum (the smaller speakers) I found it interesting to record the comparison with the larger sister, the Cassia.

Both videos should be level matched as the loudspeakers have the same sensitivity and I didn't touch the volume. Feed by a Qobuz stream and our streamer and dac electronics, don't have the LP

There is something about the ambience in @PeterA recordings that is special, maybe the effortless bass, or the graininess of the in-room recording plays its psychoacoustic magic. Maybe its the dynamic expansion of the Lamm pre.

Comments are welcome.

 

[hopkins]

Hope it is not too late to join the Sonny Rollins party.

As I'm getting ready to ship out the Ellipticum (the smaller speakers) I found it interesting to record the comparison with the larger sister, the Cassia.

Both videos should be level matched as the loudspeakers have the same sensitivity and I didn't touch the volume. Feed by a Qobuz stream and our streamer and dac electronics, don't have the LP

There is something about the ambience in @PeterA recordings that is special, maybe the effortless bass, or the graininess of the in-room recording plays its psychoacoustic magic. Maybe its the dynamic expansion of the Lamm pre.

Comments are welcome.

It takes some courage to show videos, but also to comment on them. A/B comparisons make me nervous!

I listened again to PeterA's video. There is definitely too much room reverberation, but nonetheless the sound is enjoyeable. The texture of the saxophone is nice, and the bass level is good and its sound is sharp. The tone of the saxophone is better than in the first video that was shown of his system (based on my recollection, would have to look it up and listen to it again to confirm) but still perhaps a little colored ? Hard to say, I would have to A/B against my digital version (listening with headphones).

The sound of your two speaker models seem very close - is that the case when you listen to them in your room ? However, I am tempted to say that I may prefer the sound of the small speakers. Difficult to be certain - I hate A/B-ing...

The balance between the bass and the saxophone is different from PeterA's recording, and the bass may be a little too prominent and lack a little bit of definition ? Room issues ?
The tone of the saxophone sounds ok to me, but maybe it gets drowned out a little by the bass and is less prominent so hard to appreciate the texture.

Now I am curious to see how the track sounds on my speakers!

 

[Ron Resnick]

There is excessive sibilance on her voice and a lot of processing. This is a very specific type of sound often used to demonstrate attributes. People like it. It is high in contrast, very black and white. . . . The voice is very forward while the instruments are quite recessed. . . . There is a whitish splashy character to the cymbals. They sound flat.

"People like it."

Peter,

Would you please tell us to whom you are referring here? Who likes:

-- "excessive sibilance"

-- "a lot of processing"

-- "a very specific type of sound . . . to demonstrate attributes"

-- "high in contrast"

-- "very black and white"

-- "very forward voice"

-- "recessed instruments"

-- "whitish splashy" cymbals

-- "flat" sound

Who, exactly, likes these sonic characteristics?

 

[PeterA]

"People like it."

Peter,

Would you please tell us to whom you are referring here? Who likes:

-- "excessive sibilance"

-- "a lot of processing"

-- "a very specific type of sound . . . to demonstrate attributes"

-- "high in contrast"

-- "very black and white"

-- "very forward voice"

-- "recessed instruments"

-- "whitish splashy" cymbals

-- "flat" sound

Who, exactly, likes these sonic characteristics?

Stehno likes it. I’ve heard this type of sound at shows where people complement the sound. Other people like Stehno’s videos too. My old system had this kind of sound before I started my experiments and got rid of accessories and room treatment, fancy power cords and wires and conventional recommended speaker positioning. I wrote about that in my sublime sound thread. I liked that earlier sound in my room until my values changed. You heard it and told me you liked that sound. I take you at your word. My friends liked that sound too, or at least they told me they did. High contrast and emphasis, black backgrounds with outlined images. The videos are very clean and dynamic. Those are good things and part of what many like. I do too.

There is nothing wrong with a very forward voice. It depends on the context. In this case a forward voice while the instruments are recessed seems a little bit odd and not natural to me. In that sense it is not balanced

Also this is a very famous audio file recording. I take Stehno at his word that his system is extremely transparent and that the video sounds like what he hears in the room. This is just how I’ve heard this recording elsewhere. I assume the sound is mostly from the recording and people like the recording. It’s a different type of sound than what I prefer now. I like simpler recordings without all the processing. But the two videos do sound different and my guess is mic position but I am not sure.

Perhaps you can tell us what you think of the recordings and what differences if any you hear between the two recordings. I will be curious to hear what Stehno tells us about the two different camera placements.

It seems a little bit odd that you would choose to critique my comments about a video where the topic is discussing videos and not offer your own comments but rather comment on my comments. If you keep that up, people might not want to share their opinions. Why the aggression? I’m just sharing my opinion about what I hear from the two videos.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I liked that earlier sound in my room until my values changed. You heard it and told me you liked that sound.

I can appreciate many different kinds of systems without them being my "cup of tea." I am not fussy like Kedar.

We discussed this privately sometime ago. At the time I told you privately that I was being polite to a new friend I traveled across the country to meet in person and to listen to his system, and who was enthusiastic about the sound of that system. I have never cared for the sound of solid-state driving Magico.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why the aggression?

What aggression?

You refer in a post to "people." Asking you which '"people" to whom you are referring is "aggression"?

PS: Nobody accused you of "aggression" when you machine gunned Scott Naylor interrogatories on my system thread when you thought he was criticizing the AS-2000. Quite some surprising and disappointing double standard on your part.

 

[hopkins]

@RCanelas

P.S. I know you are not going to give your own in-room impressions (you sell those speakers), but I would be curious as to the differences between the two models... Also, was this recorded with a phone? It is really difficult to compare these phone recordings. It would be great to hear your system with a better recording device!

Phone recordings sound better when played back on a phone... for example, bass is better defined when listening to your recordings on my phone or tablet. Probably with my headphones that extend much lower I am hearing more bass resonance from the room..

 

[Ron Resnick]

Stehno likes it.

Stehno,

Is Peter correct that you like reproduced sound which exhibits all of these sonic attributes:

-- "excessive sibilance"

-- "a lot of processing"

-- "a very specific type of sound . . . to demonstrate attributes"

-- "high in contrast"

-- "very black and white"

-- "very forward voice"

-- "recessed instruments"

-- "whitish splashy" cymbals

-- "flat" sounding


Peter,

I don't believe that anyone would use the foregoing set of sonic characteristics collectively to describe the type of sound he/she "likes."

I hope I'm wrong but sometimes I feel that you write like this to describe and to criticize in a thinly veiled and slightly passive aggressive way anyone whose systems you feel do not satisfy your personal criteria of natural sound.

 

[Rexp]

Hope it is not too late to join the Sonny Rollins party.

As I'm getting ready to ship out the Ellipticum (the smaller speakers) I found it interesting to record the comparison with the larger sister, the Cassia.

Both videos should be level matched as the loudspeakers have the same sensitivity and I didn't touch the volume. Feed by a Qobuz stream and our streamer and dac electronics, don't have the LP

There is something about the ambience in @PeterA recordings that is special, maybe the effortless bass, or the graininess of the in-room recording plays its psychoacoustic magic. Maybe its the dynamic expansion of the Lamm pre.

Comments are welcome.

I think your system plays this digital copy very well. I also think the vinyl would sound much better on your system. I don't think I've ever heard a good digital copy of any Sonny Rollins record. Having said that, I would like to hear it on the Antipodes/Pilium system I posted earlier.

 

[Rexp]

Stehno likes it.

Stehno,

Is Peter correct that you like reproduced sound which exhibits all of these sonic attributes:

-- "excessive sibilance"

-- "a lot of processing"

-- "a very specific type of sound . . . to demonstrate attributes"

-- "high in contrast"

-- "very black and white"

-- "very forward voice"

-- "recessed instruments"

-- "whitish splashy" cymbals

-- "flat" sounding


Peter,

I don't believe that anyone would use the foregoing set of sonic characteristics collectively to describe the type of sound he/she "likes."

I hope I'm wrong but sometimes I feel that you write like this to describe and to criticize in a thinly veiled and slightly passive aggressive way anyone whose systems you feel do not satisfy your personal criteria of natural sound.

I think as a founder of this site you should resist the temptation to play forum policeman and let folks express their opinions as long as they're not being abusive.

 

[PeterA]

I can appreciate many different kinds of systems without them being my "cup of tea." I am not fussy like Kedar.

We discussed this privately sometime ago. At the time I told you privately that I was being polite to a new friend I traveled across the country to meet in person and to listen to his system, and who was enthusiastic about the sound of that system. I have never cared for the sound of solid-state driving Magico.

That doesn’t matter. I thought you were being candid but thank you for clarifying that you were not. I’ll have to remember that. When people ask my opinion I tend to be honest, or what is the point?

I am describing what I hear, not trying to be diplomatic. Stehno deserves no less. I miss the candor of recently departed members whose posts one could understand.

 

[PeterA]

I think as a founder of this site you should resist the temptation to play forum policeman and let folks express their opinions as long as they're not being abusive.

This is Ron’s nature. Remember the hyperbole police fiasco?

 

[Kingrex]

I was being polite to a new friend I traveled across the country to meet in person and to listen to his system, and who was enthusiastic about the sound of that system. I have never cared for the sound of solid-state driving Magico.

Now that is funny. Its entertaining how audiophile are so quick to lie. I doubt it is all about not wanting to hurt feelings either. I bet a part is also not really understanding the full amalgamation of all you are presented with. What should it sound like as to what your hearing. Its uncomfortable to commit to a critique of a system.

 

[Kingrex]

That doesn’t matter. I thought you were being candid but thank you for clarifying that you were not. I’ll have to remember that. When people ask my opinion I tend to be honest, or what is the point?

I am describing what I hear, not trying to be diplomatic. Stehno deserves no less. I miss the candor of recently departed members whose posts one could understand.

DDK was a salesman and like many I meet are all to happy to shit on your gear and claim theirs king of the pile. I would not put that in the same category as a friendly fellow audiophile not wanting to hurt someone's feelings.

 

[RCanelas]

P.S. I know you are not going to give your own in-room impressions (you sell those speakers), but I would be curious as to the differences between the two models... Also, was this recorded with a phone? It is really difficult to compare these phone recordings. It would be great to hear your system with a better recording device!

Phone recordings sound better when played back on a phone... for example, bass is better defined when listening to your recordings on my phone or tablet. Probably with my headphones that extend much lower I am hearing more bass resonance from the room..

The small speaker is somewhat more refined in a couple of aspects. The horn is my own design, after an inordinate amount of time spent of cfd and physically prototyping. The baffles are considerably better at driving energy away from the drivers. The custom 12" has surpassed my expectations regarding speed and tone.

Some of these are lessons to be incorporated in the larger speakers in the next revision. These have the twin 15" that just provide an effortless nature to the reproduction. The mids above the highs provide slightly more uniform dispersion and the external crossovers do make a difference in clarity.

The recording was done with my iphone, as per the threads' moto. Right above the front wall there is a ventilation duct with drywall that simply sings between 100 and 800Hz, besides the curved wall and the glass in one of the sides. The room is very flawed, but it will have to do until the listening rooms are ready.

 

[PeterA]

Now that is funny. Its entertaining how audiophile are so quick to lie. I doubt it is all about not wanting to hurt feelings either. I bet a part is also not really understanding the full amalgamation of all you are presented with. What should it sound like as to what your hearing. Its uncomfortable to commit to a critique of a system.

After listening on and off to my system for three days, I suggested to Ron that we go out for a sail. It was an absolutely beautiful windy day and there was a huge national regatta going on, so I thought it would be fun to go out and watch the racing or just explore the coastline.

He told me all he wanted to do was sit inside and listen to my system all day. I’m pretty surprised that now years later he’s actually saying he didn’t enjoy the sound. That is fine with me. I moved on from that system, and I sure would have rather been out there sailing. How strange.