Stillpoints Ultra Vs - Wilson X1/Grand Slamms

[LL21]

LLoyd just so I understand,
where do you put the Ultra 5 on top of the preamp?
Asking as I am surprised that as it works like this they are not promoting as both a foot and vibration absorber (like the LPI).
How well did the LPI compare when used same way on the preamp?

Would be interesting to know if anyone ever tried the Finite Resonator or compared it to say using Stillpoints like the LPI/Ultra 5 on top of a preamp.
http://www.finite-elemente.de/en/accessories/resonator

Very interesting to say the least as I do wonder if either the Finite or Stillpoint can enhance vibration/isolation platforms by being on top of them instead of the equipment (or both using one on platform and one on say preamp sitting on platform).

Cheers
Orb

Hey Orb,

I am amazed by the influx of comments on this one thread in a single day...i nearly missed your post. Sorry. The reason i tried putting the Ultra 5s on top of the preamp was that the distributor said the LP Isolator was kind of like an Ultra 5 but designed to place over the central spindle (or whatever its called) of the turntable (i'm clearly not an analog guy!)...to remove vibration from the spinning platter. They definitely use the LP isolator on top of components and Transports in particular.

So they started experimenting by placing the Ultra 5 on the preamp...and in one particular spot, taking it on and off was a noticeable difference. [Fortunately!] it was not much of a difference on my other components which already had HRS dampers/nimbus couplers on them. But in the case of the CJ...which does have nimbus coupers/dampers...that one spot on the top of the unit did result in an improvement with an Ultra 5.

And that's where i began playing with Ultra 5s on top of my sub. I have tried heavy weights before and they did nothing or not enough for me to care. I then did one HRS double thickness damping plate, and i could hear a difference subtle...consistent but subtle. It intrigued me but not for the price. Unfortunately, for a lot more money...these Stillpoints made a far greater improvement to me...but they are so expensive...hence my dilemma.

I have tried the Finite Elemente Resonator...i did not wish to refer to them in my earlier posts...but since you ask...i got 2 of them used for very little money...and in my system, they did extremely little too unfortunately. Others may have a difference experience and i respect that, but in my system, i would have sorely regretted paying retail for them. In fact, i would definitely have returned them. I still use them on top of each of the Lucite covers of my CJ GAT. This is where earlier, i was saying they made maybe a 5% difference on their own...heck i might even be rounding up slightly on that number. But with the Stillpoints, keeping or removing the finite elements was a surprisingly greater idfference...it definitely was closer to 10%. i guess the ultra 5 lets me hear other changes more easily? no idea.

In the end, i am not getting an Ultra 5 for the CJ GAT. It already has HRS stuff (all second hand) and these little finite elemente resonators...that's plenty already. Hope that's helpful.

 

[edorr]

Hi Lloyd,

Good to hear that you got a chance to hear what the Ultra 5's can do in your system.

I have the Ultra 5's under my Beat turntable, my Allnic H3000 phono stage and the H3000 outboard power supply and my Absolare preamp. I use the Ultra SS's under the outboard power supply for my MSB transport and the outboard power supply for my MSB Diamond DAC and under my external crossover for my Rockport Arrakis. I have compared the Ultra SS to the Ultra 5 using my Allnic phono stage (both the main unit and the power supply). In my system, both the Ultra SS and the Ultra 5 improve the sonics in the same areas, but the Ultra 5's just do more of it and once you hear what they do, it is difficult to not use them. I havent' tried either of them under my VTL Siegfried amps yet, but I do plan to do that in the not too distant future.

Arnie

Arnie, I have been wondering about vibration control under the MSB stuff myself. Do you have the DAC and Powersupply stacked, and put the stillpoints under the pwowersupply? If so how do you so this? Do you use four and put the MSB spikes into the small cones of the stillpoint ultra's?

 

[LL21]

Arnie, I have been wondering about vibration control under the MSB stuff myself. Do you have the DAC and Powersupply stacked, and put the stillpoints under the pwowersupply? If so how do you so this? Do you use four and put the MSB spikes into the small cones of the stillpoint ultra's?

I think this is the photo from AGon Arnie posted. Looks like he bypassed the stock feet and placed 4 Ultras closer together underneath the MSB stack.

 

[edorr]

I think this is the photo from AGon Arnie posted. Looks like he bypassed the stock feet and placed 4 Ultras closer together underneath the MSB stack.

Interesting. Looks like he is floating the MSB components on the stillpoints.

 

[LL21]

Interesting. Looks like he is floating the MSB components on the stillpoints.

Yes...now I believe Arnie posted some replacements of Ultra SS with the Ultra 5s under his preamp and phono stage...so I don't know if this photo is absolutely current. I believe the word he used was 'addictive'...

 

[mep]

I think this is the photo from AGon Arnie posted. Looks like he bypassed the stock feet and placed 4 Ultras closer together underneath the MSB stack.

View attachment 9117

One thing I can tell with this picture with my calibrated eyeballs is that the equipment on the top shelf on the left is listing to starboard.

 

[edorr]

Yes...now I believe Arnie posted some replacements of Ultra SS with the Ultra 5s under his preamp and phono stage...so I don't know if this photo is absolutely current. I believe the word he used was 'addictive'...

Why not stick four under the rack itself? Anyone tried this? I have a threaded insert and spikes under my rack so this could work very well.

 

[LL21]

Why not stick four under the rack itself? Anyone tried this? I have a threaded insert and spikes under my rack so this could work very well.

Probably worth a try...Stillpoints specifically makes dozens of adaptors for their products so you can screw directly into almost any component.

 

[microstrip]

(...) I have tried the Finite Elemente Resonator...i did not wish to refer to them in my earlier posts...but since you ask...i got 2 of them used for very little money...and in my system, they did extremely little too unfortunately. Others may have a difference experience and i respect that, but in my system, i would have sorely regretted paying retail for them. In fact, i would definitely have returned them. (...)

Lloyd,

The Resonator had a first model that was replaced by a much improved model. Since that time the original model has been widely available at reduced prices on the second hand market without reference to this detail. What model did you buy? Is your labeled as Resonator 1000 Hz?

If the GAT has the same type of mechanically decoupled PCB circuits as the other cj top preamplifiers I would not expect the resonator to have a great effect on it. I only have tried it years ago in the effect was noticeable in some equipment, other was really insensitive to it. .

 

[LL21]

Lloyd,

The Resonator had a first model that was replaced by a much improved model. Since that time the original model has been widely available at reduced prices on the second hand market without reference to this detail. What model did you buy? Is your labeled as Resonator 1000 Hz?

If the GAT has the same type of mechanically decoupled PCB circuits as the other cj top preamplifiers I would not expect the resonator to have a great effect on it. I only have tried it years ago in the effect was noticeable in some equipment, other was really insensitive to it. .

Hi Micro...mine just says Resonator on it...is it the old one perhaps? Yes, the GAT tube platforms themselves are decoupled, but I do not think the GAT is an entirely floating chassis as in the ACT 2.

 

[PeterA]

Hi Whart...if you are looking at Vibraplane, there is also Halcyonics. Also used under electron microscopes or whatever apparently. I am hoping to hear one at a friend's later this month who uses it under a transport. I am only there to learn...not to get tempted...but he said it is excellent. I think they cost around the same if i am not mistaken?

The Vibraplane is about $2000 plus $500 if you want a compressor for the active/self leveling model. I recommend this under a turntable. For amps and other components like CDPs, the passive Vibraplane is fine (filled with a bicycle pump every couple of weeks) and that will save the cost of the compressor. A Halcyonics is about $6-8K and a Minus K device is about $2-3K. But this is a whole different discussion for another thread.

 

[PeterA]

I keep looking but never pull the trigger. Not sure about the air pump and whether I want to introduce that into the equation or not. If you get a chance, could you please PM me the model you use? Thanks Peter.

Hi Frank, Here is a photo. I'll PM you with more information. The cost of this with the steel ballast plate and compressor is about $3K, slightly more than four of the Stillpoint Ultra Vs. It is much heavier and a bit more fussy than a passive footer. I've never compared the two.

 

[arnies]

Arnie, I have been wondering about vibration control under the MSB stuff myself. Do you have the DAC and Powersupply stacked, and put the stillpoints under the pwowersupply? If so how do you so this? Do you use four and put the MSB spikes into the small cones of the stillpoint ultra's?

Hi Edorr,

I do have the MSB Diamond Dac and Diamond power supply stacked and then I put 4 of the Ultra SS's under the power supply. As Lloyd correctly points out, I am bypassing the MSB footers on the Diamond power supply and just using the Ultra SS's directly. I was very surprised at the sonic improvement this made. I am guessing that the Ultra 5's would be even better but I haven't tried a set under the digital front end yet.

Arnie

 

[arnies]

One thing I can tell with this picture with my calibrated eyeballs is that the equipment on the top shelf on the left is listing to starboard.

Its either a bad photographer (me) or an optical illusion but definitely level. But I do see that this picture is a little out of date as it still shows the VTL 7.5 Series 3 preamp power supply/control unit on the bottom right which isn't there any longer.

Arnie

 

[Orb]

Thanks Lloyd really useful and much appreciated.
Cheers
Orb

 

[Orb]

Lloyd,

The Resonator had a first model that was replaced by a much improved model. Since that time the original model has been widely available at reduced prices on the second hand market without reference to this detail. What model did you buy? Is your labeled as Resonator 1000 Hz?

If the GAT has the same type of mechanically decoupled PCB circuits as the other cj top preamplifiers I would not expect the resonator to have a great effect on it. I only have tried it years ago in the effect was noticeable in some equipment, other was really insensitive to it. .

Good point about model version of Resonator.
Regarding the preamp, Lloyd mentions how the Stillpoint 5s work on top of the CJ preamp.
So surely the Resonator should work as well, due to both taking mechanical energy and converting it to heat/isolated movement?
Seems the Stillpoints are incredibly efficient even when not used as a foot but would be interesting comparing to latest model of Resonator, unless I am missing something Micro.

Cheers
Orb

 

[LL21]

Good point about model version of Resonator.
Regarding the preamp, Lloyd mentions how the Stillpoint 5s work on top of the CJ preamp.
So surely the Resonator should work as well, due to both taking mechanical energy and converting it to heat/isolated movement?
Seems the Stillpoints are incredibly efficient even when not used as a foot but would be interesting comparing to latest model of Resonator, unless I am missing something Micro.

Cheers
Orb

Hi Orb...technically speaking i would not be surprised if you were 100% correct. That said, i just did not find the old Resonators to be nearly as effective in my system as the Ultra 5s. Note: in my system, i have most of my isolation second hand...and own HRS dampers (older and newer double-thickness plates), nimbus/couplers, Artesania damping plates, and Finite Elemente older Resonators. And of course, dealer discount on the new Ultra 5s and LP Isolator.

All of the above products (in my system) are great and [relatively] linear in quality relative to retail price...with the exception of the Resonators. i consider myself fortunate to have bought them for not much. Had i paid even a big fraction of retail, i absolutely would have returned them. I guess i know why they were sold so inexpensively. On a scale of 1 to 100, if the majority of the above products range from 65 to 90+ in quality, the Resonators are below the 20 mark. Just my experience...if anyone disagrees, i respect your opinion and share my experience in my system as fair warning to fellow members.

 

[rockitman]

I just spent $5k on stillpoints after hearing only 3 Ultra SS under my phono stage gain stage (not power supply) and the LP1 on my turntable. Under components in a rack, the SS sounded superior to the 5's. I suspect this is due to the lighter weight of rack components. I see the Ultra 5' as only being useful under speakers, amps and turntables. The smaller Ultra SS sound better under components less than 40lbs in weight. I wanted to hate these things. Truth is, they bring a new level of performance/ sound quality. Today I purchased 15 Ultra SS for 5 components used in three's, the LP 1 one and 6 ultra mini's for the lighter weight of the KC gain and power supply chassis. More impressions to come.

 

[edorr]

I just spent $5k on stillpoints after hearing only 3 Ultra SS under my phono stage gain stage (not power supply) and the LP1 on my turntable. Under components in a rack, the SS sounded superior to the 5's. I suspect this is due to the lighter weight of rack components. I see the Ultra 5' as only being useful under speakers, amps and turntables. The smaller Ultra SS sound better under components less than 40lbs in weight. I wanted to hate these things. Truth is, they bring a new level of performance/ sound quality. Today I purchased 15 Ultra SS for 5 components used in three's, the LP 1 one and 6 ultra mini's for the lighter weight of the KC gain and power supply chassis. More impressions to come.

All you need now is another 5k worth of 5's to take care of your speakers and you're done. Stillpoint is having a blowout quarter!

 

[NorthStar]

All you need now is another 5k worth of 5's to take care of your speakers and you're done. Stillpoint is having a blowout quarter!

Is that all?