Stillpoints Ultra Vs - Wilson X1/Grand Slamms
- Thread starter LL21
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Stillpoints / Components on Carpet
I agree with edorr. All of our experience testing on a variety of surfaces, including carpet on concrete, tells us the product isolates the component from the room as intended.
I agree with edorr. All of our experience testing on a variety of surfaces, including carpet on concrete, tells us the product isolates the component from the room as intended.
Will be interesting to follow this as others hopefully try Stillpoints in their own systems. I have been extremely impressed with them...'addictive' indeed. I kept the 3 for the sub and got one each for the Transport and Preamp...'done for now'. Specific notes on specific tracks which i knew were 'problem notes' have completely changed and fallen straight in line with the rest of the music like there was never any problem. No amount of tweaking has been able to do that before. Meanwhile on all material, lyrics are clearer and 3 out of 9 tracks, i have found little parts (to in a few cases whole sections of music) appeared easily and effortlessly which i did not know before. I gave a few examples earlier in this thread...i have since continued to discover more. Basically far better decay...loads of fun.
One thing I like about stillpoints (under speakers in particular) is the physics makes sense and I can visualize and rationalize what they do and how this improves SQ. For the life of me, I still cannot get my head around why a $2K powercord extending 20 meters of cheap copper in the wall would make ANY difference in SQ (although it does), which is utterly unsatisfying to me.
So, Lloyd, is that 8 Ultra 5's for the speakers, 3 more for the sub, but only ONE for the transport and ONE for the preamp? A total of 13?
Almost...its 8 Ultra 5s for speakers, 3 for top of sub which is incredibly good (sub is already on Auralex Subwoofer platform which actually worked better than the Ultra 5s underneath), 1 for TOP of CJ GAT, and 1 LP Isolator for top of Zanden Transport. Tranport is already on HRS nimbus couplers and HRS M3 platform. CJ is on top of HRS nimbus/couplers.
Mep, I'm surprised no one has answered you yet~ I have the LP isolator, which is an adaptation of the Ultra 5. The short answer is, I think, twofold: first, mass, and second, the LP isolator (and the Ultra 5 as far as I know) have these isolated 'pads' that are connected to the decoupling system embedded into the devices. They function in some way to absorb and neutralize vibration. I'm sure someone else can provide a more scientific explanation, but that's the gist of it as far as I understand it.
Sounds about right to me (non techie)...the sub did not really achieve a demonstrable level of difference until i stuck 3 down. I suspect part of that is simply weight and vibration. Each Ultra V is quite heavy, and in addition to the 5 ceramic balls inside (similar concept to Finite Elemente cerapucs?) which apparently are the decoupling part inside...i think the weight alone also helps. Each Ultra 5 is comprised to two halves...one half sits ontop of the other but they are in contact with each other only via these 5 ceramic balls. It is like how the Metronome Kalista Ref sits on top of its acrylic base...via 4 steel ball bearings so you can actually push the entire transport, bang the table, etc because these ball bearings or whatever are taking certain kinds of vibration...the transport continues to play smoothly without skipping.
FWIW, the LP isolator works well on top of my transport...the Ultra 5 is better (and also heavier)...even though both have 5 of those ceramic balls inside. I imagine that the same applies to the sub...the weight is helping...but again, i needed 3 before feeling like the bass was sufficiently better. And it is much better....of the 6-10 tracks i found unlistenable due to nodes that keep vibrating in that one spot in my room...3 of them are now dramatically more tamed and most are now 'acceptable' though not great.
I still get the node but the air filling up with bass in that one spot now at least starts and stops on a dime...no more loong, sustained bass energy just filling up the room in that one spot. I can only think this is because the sub was continuing to vibrate and generate waves into the floor or whatever after the bass note...which componounded the problem of the node...so instead of individual bass notes, you got this loooong drawn out bass whoomp that would go on for several seconds if not the entire track which was intolerable. Now at least the bass whack occurs (not a clean one due to node but a single bass whack at least), and it now finishes well before the next bass whack so it feels like a proper beat even if not the cleanest one.
Lloyd, what you are suggesting makes sense. One of the biggest problems with subs, IMO, is that the cabinets that they are typically housed in are very prone to vibration. Unlike several speaker manufacturer's, most sub manufacturer's seem to place little care into the rigidity of the sub cabinet....an area where i would think would be most crucial. A while back, I did notice that Krell made a sub out of aluminium, which was extremely rigid....unfortunately, the cost was also very high. BUT, it would seem that the vast majority of subs on the market today are not constructed to that degree. Damping the cabinet walls is IMO a very good idea....leading to far less smearing. BTW, the old VPI brick of yore was pretty good at this type of damping, I would think a similar result could be gotten with a few of these on a sub cabinet.
Thanks, Davey. Good to know. All i know is...they work! Good to understand a bit more behind it as to why. Have heard good things about VPI bricks.
The Ultra 5s are designed to couple something like a speaker to a floor or a component to a shelf. In other words, it's loaded on both sides. When you take 3 of the Ultra 5s and just place them on top of a sub and one end of each Ultra 5 is unloaded, they can't work as they were designed to. All you have down now is set some very expense weight on top of your sub that is now not working as it was designed to. It doesn't make sense to me to take a very expensive device like the Ultra 5 that was designed to couple two surfaces together and leave one end in the breeze and think you are using these devices correctly.
The only thing that Davey postulated was that adding weight on top of a sub cabinet was good for dampening. VPI made "Magic Bricks" which used to claim some special properties for dissipating magnetic energy when placed on power and output transformers of tube amps. Stillpoints were designed to couple two surfaces together. If you don't use them as a coupler, I don't see how in the world they would have any more benefit sitting on top of a sub cabinet than some small dumbbell plates would. Maybe I'm missing something here because I don't get it.
If I wanted to "drain" acoustic energy out of a cabinet, I would take a bunch of sorbotane pucks and put them on top of the sub and put a steel plate on top.
Edorr,
Perhaps you would risk creating a resonating system using the elasticity of sorbothane and the mass of steel. Would it sound good?
All these systems must be adequately dimensioned or the added material risks doing more wrong than good. Acoustic impedance and mechanical energy dissipation are tricky subjects and just because a viscoelastic material can absorb impacts very efficiently does not make it a good damping material for audio. I remember reading a study of Dynaudio for their double box speakers about damping materials and sorbothane did not score very high. Long ago Audioquest sold adhesive sorbothane sheets. I bought a few and damped an old Thorens TD125 turntable with them - as many sheets as I could glue on it. No more resonances, it sounded really dead when knocked. But after the mod the turntable sounded miserable.
Later I learned in a magazine that the turntable could be improved using some damping materials, but sorbothane was not adequate and damping should only be applied selectively in some parts of it.i aint no techie...but the Stillpoints were also designed (as in the LP Isolator) to sit on top of a turntable or other component to help keep vibration down. At the end of the day, their claim (like HRS dampers) is that by placing it on top, it helps minimize vibration. Whether its a brick, or a weight, or a Ultra V...the question is besides pure weight are there other properties or design elements that help reduce vibration more? HRS has multiple metals, ceramics polymers to reduce various kinds of vibration...or so they say. The Stillpoints marketing is that the vibration is partly absorbed by the ceramics inside. All i know is, it works. And i have put far heavier objects on the sub to try to get the bass tighter...marble statues, rubber coated weights, etc...none of them did anything. These do.
Edorr,
Perhaps you would risk creating a resonating system using the elasticity of sorbothane and the mass of steel. Would it sound good?
Long ago Audioquest sold adhesive sorbothane sheets. I bought a few and damped an old Thorens TD125 turntable with them - as many sheets as I could glue on it. No more resonances, it sounded really dead when knocked. But after the mod the turntable sounded miserable.
Wrong approach. You need to calculate the dimensions of the sorbothane corresponding with the weight you put on them for effective absorbtion. You cannot just take a bunch of it and hope for the best. To be fair, I have used the stuff using the "right approach", but never had much succes getting better sound with it (thenagain neither has anything else with the exception of stillpoint ultras).
I don't disagree, and I was extrapolating from what I do know- that the LP Isolator is adapted from the Ultra 5, and i am aware that the manufacturer does encourage the use of the LP Isolator as a mass damping device to be used on top of component chassis, etc. I also assume that the Ultra 5 is heavier than the LP Isolator. Me, I'm rather conventional- I'm using the LP Isolator on my turntable, as a spindle weight....
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