I will have to pass on that one...I had my rack made many years ago for significantly less than an HRS, Finite or Stillpoints rack and i am keeping it. In truth, every component is now isolated individually quite nicely including (finally!) the speakers and sub. The tonality is exactly where i've had it for the last 4-5 years, but increasingly refined. The bass has finally tightened and the detail/decay level grown. I have one last tweak on the 22nd, and that is me with my 3rd 'fully evolved' system after nearly 8 years since i started building it...longer than i originally remembered after going back thru my files...wow.
From the AS review by Harley, he uses components on the rack w/o any additional stillpoint devices other than what is used in the rack. That is a good thing and will save a bunch of dough. So once you have the rack all you need from stillpoints are 5's for speakers and maybe ultra SS under the amps. I think for a turntable, even on the ess rack, that use of ultra 5's will be beneficial. I am starting to consider getting these racks...two of them. By bank account is starting to cry. Help !!!!
I currently use Adona reference racks.
By damping my CJ preamp with Stillpoints Ultra 5, i can hear other changes to the preamp more easily.
For example, without the Ultra 5 on top of the preamp, the difference between having little dampers (i got them practically free) on the 2 lucite CJ tube guards is 5%. Subtle but worth keeping the dampers on top. Once i put the Stillpoints Ultra V on the preamp, then the difference of having those little dampers on the lucite guards is somewhere between 10%-15%. Again, i suspect the Ultra 5 is damping/isolating the unit so that i can hear other changes more easily. I can see now why people who find uses for these in one place in their system...end up with these on a number of components.
LLoyd just so I understand,
where do you put the Ultra 5 on top of the preamp?
Asking as I am surprised that as it works like this they are not promoting as both a foot and vibration absorber (like the LPI).
How well did the LPI compare when used same way on the preamp?
Very interesting to say the least as I do wonder if either the Finite or Stillpoint can enhance vibration/isolation platforms by being on top of them instead of the equipment (or both using one on platform and one on say preamp sitting on platform).
Albert Porter uses both Vibraplanes and Stillpoints (not in combo on the same component as far as I know). You can probably reach him directly through his site, since I gather he doesn't post here.
Although some times intuition can drive you into the wrong conclusions I think that the Vibraplane will make your components sound the way their designer intended - they are almost perfect vibration isolators with a very heavy and thick steel top plate - I have read some people apply a damping film or add some extra material to make it more inert. The Stillpoints will tune your equipment the way their designers considers an enhancement, taking mechanical energy from the device in a controlled path. As far as I remember the people form the swiss firm Goldmund were pioneers of these techniques, creating the the "mechanical diode" concept.
The Emperor racks from Finite Elements use active vibration control technology developed in collaboration with the German Fraunhofer Institute, well-known for its acoustic studies. The prices are really expensive - typically around usd 15k for a 2 shelve configuration!
By damping my CJ preamp with Stillpoints Ultra 5, i can hear other changes to the preamp more easily.
For example, without the Ultra 5 on top of the preamp, the difference between having little dampers (i got them practically free) on the 2 lucite CJ tube guards is 5%. Subtle but worth keeping the dampers on top. Once i put the Stillpoints Ultra V on the preamp, then the difference of having those little dampers on the lucite guards is somewhere between 10%-15%. Again, i suspect the Ultra 5 is damping/isolating the unit so that i can hear other changes more easily. I can see now why people who find uses for these in one place in their system...end up with these on a number of components.
Once i put the Stillpoints Ultra V on the preamp, then the difference of having those little dampers on the lucite guards is somewhere between 10%-15%.
For example, without the Ultra 5 on top of the preamp, the difference between having little dampers (i got them practically free) on the 2 lucite CJ tube guards is 5%.
Lloyd-You are the first guy I ever met who tweaks his gear and assigns percentage values to each of the tweaks. If I did my math correctly, your bass improved at first by a staggering 30% and then it improved again by another 10%-15%. So if your bass truly increased in sound quality by 40%-55%, your bass must have really sucked before. Your claims are simply incredible with regards to increases in sound quality in a hobby where once you reach a certain level of ‘goodness’ that tangible differences in sound quality become very expensive indeed. I also find it interesting that Dave Wilson does not endorse the use of the Stillpoint products and feels the feet he provides with the speakers are a superior solution.
While I believe that tweak components can improve the sound of a system, I’m finding your percentage values of sound quality increases you have assigned to be a bit silly and hard to take seriously.
Lloyd-You are the first guy I ever met who tweaks his gear and assigns percentage values to each of the tweaks. If I did my math correctly, your bass improved at first by a staggering 30% and then it improved again by another 10%-15%. So if your bass truly increased in sound quality by 40%-55%, your bass must have really sucked before. Your claims are simply incredible with regards to increases in sound quality in a hobby where once you reach a certain level of ‘goodness’ that tangible differences in sound quality become very expensive indeed. I also find it interesting that Dave Wilson does not endorse the use of the Stillpoint products and feels the feet he provides with the speakers are a superior solution.
While I believe that tweak components can improve the sound of a system, I’m finding your percentage values of sound quality increases you have assigned to be a bit silly and hard to take seriously.
Actually, MC has been reviewing his equipment and subsequent upgrades to equipment this way for 20 years...its where i must have picked it up. Plus, i am a numbers guy anyway...its in my blood.
BTW, sorry if i was unclear...30% plus another 10%-15% is about 35% (10%-15% of 30% is 3%-5%). And thats about right. I would have said that on a scale of 1-100, the low bass in my room compared to the best i've heard was about a 65%-70%...the upper bass was better than that...probably 80%...but i knew it bled and there was nothing i could do. meanwhile, on the lower bass, i still have a bass node around 32hz in one particular spot which (on those few tracks...is deafeningly loud...a roar which even at low levels means i cannot play those tracks)..again in one spot in the room...rest of place is ok. OK...6-10 tracks out of 1600 albums...i could live with that...but its still not good.
With the Stillpoints, it is where i want the system to be...probably mid-80s to 90's depending on the track. Except those 6-10 tracks where frankly, i wouldnt both to rate it because the node gets overwhelming.
the percentages come from how i rank the sound on a scale of 1-100...so if i said the system was a 65 (mediocre)...and a change put it at say upper 70s...that to me is about a 20% upgrade. Its the only way i can keep it in my head, and its basically how i am wired.
I also find it interesting that Dave Wilson does not endorse the use of the Stillpoint products and feels the feet he provides with the speakers are a superior solution.
If I were David Wilson...i would probably do the same. The one great thing about DAvid Wilson, which he said himself was a key goal of his designs...was CONSISTENT ability to replicate quality for various customers with various rooms...that was one of the key design elements of the Grand Slamm in 1994.
I would accept that there is a chance that the Stillpoints vary in response depending on the floor...i have not experimented myself...and it might well be that Wilson spikes are not only excellent, but also more consistent? From a brand management perspective, that is probably the better way to go. And again, the spikes are excellent. In fairness to the Wilson distributor...this is also basically what they told me...in certain circumstances Stillpoints would be better, but not in all.
Following that calculation, I should say that the Harmonix footers plus all my vibration control implementation benefited by 15% my current system performance, I use Nordost cones (Titanium) below the Oppo and custom made brass cones for the Mach2 and preamp. My Avalons seat on top of low mass APEX cones.
The Target rack has its own dedicated cones at each shelve and larger ones at the base.
Following that calculation, I should say that the Harmonix footers plus all my vibration control implementation benefited by 15% my current syste, performance, I use Nordost cones (Titanium) below the Oppo and custom made brass cones for the Mach2 and preamp. My Avalons seat on top of low mass APEX cones.
The Target rack has its own dedicated cones at each shelve and larger ones at the base.
Although some times intuition can drive you into the wrong conclusions I think that the Vibraplane will make your components sound the way their designer intended - they are almost perfect vibration isolators with a very heavy and thick steel top plate - I have read some people apply a damping film or add some extra material to make it more inert. The Stillpoints will tune your equipment the way their designers considers an enhancement, taking mechanical energy from the device in a controlled path. As far as I remember the people form the swiss firm Goldmund were pioneers of these techniques, creating the the "mechanical diode" concept.
The Emperor racks from Finite Elements use active vibration control technology developed in collaboration with the German Fraunhofer Institute, well-known for its acoustic studies. The prices are really expensive - typically around usd 15k for a 2 shelve configuration!
I still have several sets of Goldmund cones that I bought when- back in the 80's? Those things were considered crazy expensive then, at 200 US/3 cones?
I had a Finite Elemente rack made for my turntable back in the day- nicely made, but didn't help deal with a springy floor (not that it should have). I didn't know they were still in business.
As to Vibraplane, I've been tempted to try one- I'd need an extremely large one under my turntable given the weight of the thing- and i so hate the air pump for my arm, the idea of another active air device makes me quesy.
The Stillpoint products that I have used (Ultra SS and LP Isolator) work well, albeit at a price.
I still have several sets of Goldmund cones that I bought when- back in the 80's? Those things were considered crazy expensive then, at 200 US/3 cones?
I had a Finite Elemente rack made for my turntable back in the day- nicely made, but didn't help deal with a springy floor (not that it should have). I didn't know they were still in business.
As to Vibraplane, I've been tempted to try one- I'd need an extremely large one under my turntable given the weight of the thing- and i so hate the air pump for my arm, the idea of another active air device makes me quesy.
The Stillpoint products that I have used (Ultra SS and LP Isolator) work well, albeit at a price.
Hi Whart...if you are looking at Vibraplane, there is also Halcyonics. Also used under electron microscopes or whatever apparently. I am hoping to hear one at a friend's later this month who uses it under a transport. I am only there to learn...not to get tempted...but he said it is excellent. I think they cost around the same if i am not mistaken?
Frankly, i am afraid to! I like the HRS products, but if i find out the Stillpoints are way better...it'll be a real disappointment to go back! I'm already struggling on whether to keep the extra 3 i borrowed for the sub...and its killing me! I will give it a shot nevertheless...just perhaps not tonite. i'll let you know. !
From the AS review by Harley... I think for a turntable, even on the ess rack, that use of ultra 5's will be beneficial. I am starting to consider getting these racks...two of them. By bank account is starting to cry. Help !!!!
I currently use Adona reference racks.
