Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[Al M.]

No, but I consider digital playback to be substantially more accurate than analog playback.

While that may be, analog is more musical.

 

[Carlos269]

While that may be, analog is more musical.

Do you mean euphonic?

 

[Al M.]

Do you mean euphonic?

No, it was a lame joke.

I was just regurgitating the usual argument.

I don’t think that vinyl is more musical, but obviously, people have different thoughts about the issue.

 

[the sound of Tao]

If you're wondering why some of your posts are ruffling feathers, the above post provides a great example. That is, the (ridiculous) narrative that analog users are more about the love of music and digital users are just techies. From my experience this is far from the truth.

There is zero direct correlation between loving hifi and loving music. I’ve known people who have a deep passion for hifi who get their hit of sonic joy from great sound and for whom the content of the music is of little consequence. There are many of us (perhaps most) also for whom music is an integral great addiction.

Some choose music to play more based on extraordinary recording quality and sonic experiences rather than being more focused on the music content or performance. Audiophile music is its own genre. I’ve never seen this as a negative issue, it’s great people are getting joy out of what they are doing and whether it’s more about the music or more about the sound or any variable combination of the two is not really important.

But this is definitely not about analogue or digital, their are people who are committed to analogue or digital who are mad music lovers and there are those that are just are more about (or more focused) on a greater weighting of audiophile choices and the sonic experience rather than being more driven by purely music focused choices.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There is zero direct correlation between loving hifi and loving music.

Sorry to quibble, but the correlation surely is not zero. I am very confident that loving hi-fi and loving music is positively correlated (i.e., > 0).

 

[the sound of Tao]

Sorry to quibble, but the correlation surely is not zero. I am very confident that loving hi-fi and loving music is positively correlated (i.e., > 0).

I do get that it’s hard to even differentiate these things ourselves… that when we are listening and loving it which part or parts are giving the joy (the thrills and beauty and or exciting quality of the sound as the sonic experience or the deeper engagement in the music or music experience… or most often likely a combination of these two things).

While sound and music are enmeshed they can be distinctly different appreciations even though some is required to have the other. I’d also believe (guess) for most there are seemingly great engagements in both but it is even possible to be almost completely caught up in perception of one or the other.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I do get that it’s hard to even differentiate these things ourselves… that when we are listening and loving it which part or parts are giving the joy (the thrills and beauty and or exciting quality of the sound as the sonic experience or the deeper engagement in the music or music experience… or most often likely a combination of these two things).

While sound and music are enmeshed they can be distinctly different appreciations even though some is required to have the other. I’d also believe (guess) for most there are seemingly great engagements in both but it is even possible to be almost completely caught up in perception of one or the other.

I do not think it is hard to differentiate these things. Hi-fi is one hobby, music is another hobby. They are very different. They are separate hobbies.

Here you are swirling them together is a nice, flowery way, but it misses my correlation quibble.

I am very confident that "loving hi-fi and loving music" is positively correlated (i.e., > 0). In other words it is unlikely that someone who loves hi-fi either dislikes music (correlation < 0, meaning negatively correlated) or has zero interest in music (correlation = 0).

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I do get that it’s hard to even differentiate these things ourselves… that when we are listening and loving it which part or parts are giving the joy (the thrills and beauty and or exciting quality of the sound as the sonic experience or the deeper engagement in the music or music experience… or most often likely a combination of these two things).

While sound and music are enmeshed they can be distinctly different appreciations even though some is required to have the other. I’d also believe (guess) for most there are seemingly great engagements in both but it is even possible to be almost completely caught up in perception of one or the other.

i think the majority of audiophiles of all shapes and sizes love music beyond hifi. most have their musical desires from childhood.

another point is that many seriously evolve their musical tastes while they are audiophiles. personally i have gone from 99% rock/pop in 1994, to 5% rock/pop, 15% jazz and 80% classical over a 30 year process on investigation and learning. and my jazz and classical continue to evolve. how can love of music, and having a hunger for music not be central to my hifi journey. i doubt i'm unique in that.

i do think our 'gear-head' factor, does cause us to listen more than we would otherwise. there is a certain degree of personal satisfaction and bling bling with pretty things, so that is not nothing. but it's rarely it.

vintage and exotic car collectors many times hardly drive them. and there are watch collectors and other things like that where the purpose of the item is more often than not little to do with the hobby. i don't think hifi is very much like that. i'm sure there are exceptions.

 

[Rexp]

I do not think it is hard to differentiate these things. Hi-fi is one hobby, music is another hobby. They are very different. They are separate hobbies.

Here you are swirling them together is a nice, flowery way, but it misses my correlation quibble.

I am very confident that "loving hi-fi and loving music" is positively correlated (i.e., > 0). In other words it is unlikely that someone who loves hi-fi either dislikes music (correlation < 0, meaning negatively correlated) or has zero interest in music (correlation = 0).

There are two audiophile hobbies, one where folks try to reproduce the musical performance in their room (given a good recording). The other where folks try to make the music sound the way they like it with added EQ etc.

 

[Ron Resnick]

There are two audiophile hobbies, one where folks try to reproduce the musical performance in their room (given a good recording). The other where folks try to make the music sound the way they like it with added EQ etc.

Those are two of the four primary audiophile objectives.

There are more than merely two audiophile sub-hobbies. We have at least:

-- box swapping (perpetually trying different components and putting together different systems)

-- listening to music

-- music (LPs, CDs, tapes, files) collecting

-- DIY

-- basic hobby of researching, putting system together, listening to music

-- traveling to audition and to play music on other people's systems

 

[thedudeabides]

R
I pointed out how he (Al M) wrote a rebuttal to my note that showed he hadn’t even read it, and his belief that he is so much more clever and logical is not very funny either. I invited him to reply, he didn’t, you did. But your not an apologist for anyone. Yea, right.

I think WBF needs a sub forum called "Personal Insults and Attacks".

 

[thedudeabides]

i think the majority of audiophiles of all shapes and sizes love music beyond hifi. most have their musical desires from childhood.

I respectfully disagree. This repetitive A v D type thread is an obvious example that strongly indicates otherwise. Seems to me WBF much prefers discussing the messenger versus the message.

 

[Rexp]

I respectfully disagree. This repetitive A v D type thread is an obvious example that strongly indicates otherwise. Seems to me WBF much prefers discussing the messenger versus the message.

Quoting your post #311

'So simple. So true. Yet, so difficult for some to apparently comprehend.'

Pot/kettle

 

[Kingrex]

I wish streaming services were more clear on what is the source.

I do find high res PCM 24/96 and higher via HQPlayer are the superior format on my system. My streaming Qobuz is good, but not HQPlayer good.

I have all filters turned off in HQPlayer. I only use it as playback as I don't have Roon or JRiver working. My server is nice for what it is. But the Linux system is not something I can navigate to load playback software.

Do you use a reclocker?

I have considered a second switch.
I have also considered a new JCat USB with external clock.

I have tried 2 USB reclockers and neither improved on what I have.

The digital is very good through internal high rez files. The streaming is good but not the same level.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I respectfully disagree. This repetitive A v D type thread is an obvious example that strongly indicates otherwise. Seems to me WBF much prefers discussing the messenger versus the message.

don't confuse forum persona generally with actual personal activity. i'm assuming most don't take themselves that seriously.

 

[Kingrex]

I'm one of those people who is screwed. I really enjoy chilling out and listening to classical. And I want it to sound fantastic.

I also really enjoy putting on pop music and having a mixed variety of songs served up to me.

I can't Just pick one media and go for it. I have to have both. And I really like the way either does a very good job. Perfect? Heck no. But its darn satisfying.

I don't piss and cry and stay up at night loosing sleep on my digital only being the better source on some music. I dont loose sleep on the vinyl being a better source on other types of music. I'm actually tickled I have booth.

Too bad for the OP and other that don't have 2 sources. It would suck crying every time you put on your digital and could not enjoy mix music unless someone made a special 15 ips tape of records. Could be a neat club. But I have the luxury of enjoying my digital and mixing what I want. And enjoying it.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I do not think it is hard to differentiate these things. Hi-fi is one hobby, music is another hobby. They are very different. They are separate hobbies.

Here you are swirling them together is a nice, flowery way, but it misses my correlation quibble.

I am very confident that "loving hi-fi and loving music" is positively correlated (i.e., > 0). In other words it is unlikely that someone who loves hi-fi either dislikes music (correlation < 0, meaning negatively correlated) or has zero interest in music (correlation = 0).

I was talking more about the experience of music and the experience of sound within the experience of listening… they are clearly enmeshed and variable. In the experience of listening where you are appreciating the sounds and where you are appreciating the music is likely to be closer to quick change states so more power to you if you’ve mastered that level of awareness… I do think it’s a challenge at times to know the difference for me at least.

I wasn’t being flowery, was just dealing in abstracts. The quibble was that but that’s nothing much really.

 

[sbo6]

If your TT setup "blows away" your digital, time to upgrade your digital. The recordings' quality matters more than the playback source IME.

 

[the sound of Tao]

i do think our 'gear-head' factor, does cause us to listen more than we would otherwise. there is a certain degree of personal satisfaction and bling bling with pretty things, so that is not nothing. but it's rarely it.

Gear is definitely the third part of the trifecta for me… the nourishment that I get from our hobby is the sound, the music and the gear. I can understand the appreciation in each and they are enmeshed but variable and it’s a shifting mix in terms of where that weighting between them is for me over the years.

I do think many of us start at music but the other two are about us from early as well. I’m currently in a more heavily pro music state of mind but still have a lasting active deep love interest with the other two.

 

[bonzo75]

Gear is definitely the third part of the trifecta for me… the nourishment that I get from our hobby is the sound, the music and the gear. I can understand the appreciation in each and they are enmeshed but variable and it’s a shifting mix in terms of where that weighting between them is for me over the years.

I do think many of us start at music but the other two are about us from early as well. I’m currently in a more heavily pro music state of mind but still have a lasting active deep love interest with the other two.

In the early days it was always fun to understand the difference between Arc Ref 3 vs Arc Ref 5, 5 vs 5SE, and so on till you get to the top of a brand. Compare it to other similar tubed brands, e.g. VTL, CJ. Then to SS. Similarly with other parts of the chain, like comparing carts or tables with the same cart etc is fun. Or dacs.

However I don't understand how one can evaluate gear without using the musical message. And that's why some people focus on hearing a bit more top, bit more bottom, etc while both components might be screwing up the realism equally. And if they both let through the musically message equally well, the differences might not really matter unless significant. And then the system philosophy matters more.

And the final goal is to get to a system that lets you just hear different performances/concerts.