Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[PeterA]

My concern is the holders of music rights (and Sony, the inventor of digital CD has bought up most of it) by restricting access to the master tape, but instead selling access to DSD copies of such, are going to eventually eliminate the competition of the superior pure analogue tape and vinyl and monopolise the market. And it would be such a shame to loose the better sounding format forever.

I agree.

I pointed out how he (Al M) wrote a rebuttal to my note that showed he hadn’t even read it, and his belief that he is so much more clever and logical is not very funny either. I invited him to reply, he didn’t, you did. But you’re not an apologist for anyone. Yea, right.

You’re free to think whatever you want. Why don’t you be a little more direct and tell us all for whom you think I am an apologist. The inferences and innuendos are annoying. Go ahead: make your case and quote examples.

 

[Kingrex]

I had a client a while back. Computer guy. He was adamant bits were bits and the modem and router had little to no influence on his streaming. And he was disappointed in his streaming and thought vinyl much better.

Same for electricians I meet. 12 awg wire is absolutely sufficient they say. Wire nuts can't be heard they say. Go ahead and waste your money on a copper panel they say. Just because your employed in a field, does not mean you spent the time really examining a particular focus. It took me a few years to refine all going on with grounding, wire makeup, corrosion protection, material use. I didn't know till I really dug in and investigated. Oddly, I now feel I could wire a medical imaging device better than some engineer can spec.

 

[mtemur]

I agree that there is conversion, also in the phono stage, but it’s not conversion to digital. It’s the conversion to Digital, which is not found in nature. For some reason, Digital pixels in current tech images is not as much of an issue for me.

For me it doesn’t pose a problem either as well as digital video. I find similarities between digital video and audio regarding artifacts. In black scenes digital video face troubles handling layers and produces artifacts just like digital audio’s violins and strings.

 

[Kingrex]

I went through a few of my current albums that have digital in the recording and or mastering and Qobuz. I did not try HQPlayer as its not working again. The recordings are so radically different I can't make a comparison. I will try some more when I have time.

 

[Al M.]

For me it doesn’t pose a problem either as well as digital video. I find similarities between digital video and audio regarding artifacts. In black scenes digital video face troubles handling layers and produces artifacts just like digital audio’s violins and strings.

Violins and strings: Depends on the quality of the digital.

 

[wil]

I don’t know if anyone else has noticed this but it appears to me that in most of the previous postings relating in some way to sound presentation between analogue vs digital, the thread eventually gets hijacked into discussions of various aspects of digital technology, each attempting to impress others of greater technical prowess. It suggests (to me) that many on the digital side are not so much audiophiles as technophiles.

If you're wondering why some of your posts are ruffling feathers, the above post provides a great example. That is, the (ridiculous) narrative that analog users are more about the love of music and digital users are just techies. From my experience this is far from the truth.

 

[Rensselaer]

You are entitled to your own interpretation of my posts, even if I don't think it is correct. It's a free world.

I think my points speak for themselves, and others will read it that way.

And quite a few others will agree that you react and attack anyone who says anything negative towards digital.

 

[Lagonda]

If you're wondering why some of your posts are ruffling feathers, the above post provides a great example. That is, the (ridiculous) narrative that analog users are more about the love of music and digital users are just techies. From my experience this is far from the truth.

Everyone knows digital users only care about measurements, and "listen" to their music trough a oscilloscope !

 

[wil]

For me it doesn’t pose a problem either as well as digital video. I find similarities between digital video and audio regarding artifacts. In black scenes digital video face troubles handling layers and produces artifacts just like digital audio’s violins and strings.

This is a chestnut that often gets pulled out. As a professional photographer and printmaker, I can tell you that today's high quality medium format digital sensors produce blacks every bit as deep as medium/large format film. Sure, if you compare lower quality sensors that won't be the case.

With music, it also holds that you have to be careful what you're comparing what to. I listen to a lot of violin music. I grew up with a violinist in my house practicing every day for 18 years, so I know the sound in my bones. The point is, I come across a lot of digital recordings (of violin or whatever) that are awful. It takes some hunting sometimes, but I also find a lot that sound right and wonderful.

 

[Rensselaer]

If you're wondering why some of your posts are ruffling feathers, the above post provides a great example. That is, the (ridiculous) narrative that analog users are more about the love of music and digital users are just techies. From my experience this is far from the truth.

That isn’t what I meant, if that is truly what you believe I wrote.

I remarked that I found one audiophile’s finding that turning off and on a DAC changes the sound of a subsequent play (I believe of the same music) to be very interesting and worthy of further research.

I also wrote that, like him, a few others have gone deeply into various aspects of digital technology without any reference whatsoever to the OP’s original query being (is he “delusional” because of his preference of pure analogue music over digital music).

I had seen such single-subject tech discussions on other threads that were dealing with this recurring theme of analogue v. digital, digital as good as analogue, analogue as good as digital, etc., and wondered if they might prefer posting such is a sub-group who are more turned on by the technological process of storing and recreating sound than the listening experience ( e.g. sub-forum “The Measurement Based Audio forum”).

I thought (and stated) that those who took the thread down rabbit holes that had nothing to do with the query posed by the OP were hijacking the thread. Where I apparently erred was thinking that the point of these threads is to tap the minds of experts and come to a conclusion, but I have been informed that it is not. Rather it is a place where, as long as they stay within the rules, members can shoot the shit about this hobby, take threads wherever, and leave us no wiser (with no conclusions) after.

My apologies to those whose feathers I ruffled.

 

[thedudeabides]

We like what we like and after we die out, the next generation makes there music the standard. It's not just in church...its in popular music as well. There will be a day when we're all in the dust. I've owned all of these formats and love them all - because they serve me the music I want to hear...my way.

So simple. So true. Yet, so difficult for some to apparently comprehend.

I have recently developed a taste for country music which I never liked in the past. Classical is still my goto choice but not many radio stations in New Mexico play that genre. I watched the recent 2024 CMT Music Awards and loved it.

Times change. Preferences change. It is a basic fact of life.

 

[Al M.]

And quite a few others will agree that you react and attack anyone who says anything negative towards digital.

A careful examination of this thread would prove that I have not reacted to everyone who said anything negative towards digital. There is a lot that I simply let slide.

And "attack"? I don't think a lot of people would agree with this interpretation. It also depends on the character of emotional involvement in an issue if everything is perceived as an "attack" or not.

 

[morricab]

I went through a few of my current albums that have digital in the recording and or mastering and Qobuz. I did not try HQPlayer as its not working again. The recordings are so radically different I can't make a comparison. I will try some more when I have time.

Try just cd quality on Qobuz I find they sound basically like the actual cd…the HR stuff for many recordings is suspect.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Try just cd quality on Qobuz I find they sound basically like the actual cd…the HR stuff for many recordings is suspect.

but most times it is legit. i have plenty of high rez files which are also multiple versions on Quboz or Tidal. easy to compare the redbook and high rez versions both hard drive files and streaming and determine what is what.

high rez mostly delivers in my experience. but it's not 100% i agree.

it all comes down to which file is the native one closest to the source. that is the part of the equation not always easy to determine and might take some digging. if the tape transfer or source recording was redbook, then of course, the high rez will not be better, or maybe as good. but those cases are unusual. sometimes the dac itself might skew things too. not every dac deals with every format as optimally.

i've owned SACD's, then SACD dsd rips, which were long term references. then i got the PCM high rez version which turned out to be much better, as it was the source for the dsd/SACD. until you find the most native transfer, no way to know.

 

[acmn]

It makes no scientific sense. And I am nothing if not a diehard scientist with a PhD in computer science to boot, having spent a large part of my career teaching in one of the world’s greatest PhD programs in CS, and now working at one of the world”s leading software firms in the Bay Area. I’m no technological Luddite. I’ve invested heavily in digital with top solid state and tube DACs.

But each time I play my vinyl on one of my turntables, man oh man, why do I always feel that digital sucks? I’m listening to a garden variety pop album — Fleetwood Mac — on an SME 20/12 table with the V12 arm with a Koetsu Onyx Platinum feeding the ARC Ref 3SE phono stage. The sound is organic, so compelling to listen to that my left brain analytical mind that whispers this is all distortion sounding pleasant is quashed by my right brain saying who cares when it sounds so good?

Am I delusional?

The voltage induced in a phono cartridge coil will never reach the amplifier as it is, instead it will encounter such a combination of resistance, inductance and capacitance on its way to the amplifier that a RLC low pass filter acting on its frequency response is produced. It is not digital, so you find it "natural", well pleasing your ears.

 

[Carlos269]

The voltage induced in a phono cartridge coil will never reach the amplifier as it is, instead it will encounter such a combination of resistance, inductance and capacitance on its way to the amplifier that a RLC low pass filter acting on its frequency response is produced. It is not digital, so you find it "natural", well pleasing your ears.

Agree. You can hear it, the limitation and high frequency roll-off on the treble, and at the other end, the rotation of the turntable and cadence of the cartridge on the platter introduces low frequency anomalies that were once addressed with rumble filters. The combination of soft top end and boosted low end makes for a very euphoric sound.

 

[Kingrex]

I wish streaming services were more clear on what is the source.

I do find high res PCM 24/96 and higher via HQPlayer are the superior format on my system. My streaming Qobuz is good, but not HQPlayer good.

I have all filters turned off in HQPlayer. I only use it as playback as I don't have Roon or JRiver working. My server is nice for what it is. But the Linux system is not something I can navigate to load playback software.

 

[morricab]

I wish streaming services were more clear on what is the source.

I do find high res PCM 24/96 and higher via HQPlayer are the superior format on my system. My streaming Qobuz is good, but not HQPlayer good.

I have all filters turned off in HQPlayer. I only use it as playback as I don't have Roon or JRiver working. My server is nice for what it is. But the Linux system is not something I can navigate to load playback software.

Do you use a reclocker?

 

[hopkins]

Agree. You can hear it, the limitation and high frequency roll-off on the treble, and at the other end, the rotation of the turntable and cadence of the cartridge on the platter introduces low frequency anomalies that were once addressed with rumble filters. The combination of soft top end and boosted low end makes for a very euphoric sound.

Do you consider digital exempt of any form of distortions?

 

[Carlos269]

Do you consider digital exempt of any form of distortions?

No, but I consider digital playback to be substantially more accurate than analog playback.