Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?

[tima]

By the way, I listened to a digital version of that album last night, on Qobuz, and it sounds good. Perhaps an LP would sound a bit better (or a bit different) but the digital release is "good enough" for me...

You can listen to a LP recorded version of Misty here. The entire LP is just as good.

 

[tima]

My concern is the holders of music rights (and Sony, the inventor of digital CD has bought up most of it) by restricting access to the master tape, but instead selling access to DSD copies of such, are going to eventually eliminate the competition of the superior pure analogue tape and vinyl and monopolise the market. And it would be such a shame to loose the better sounding format forever.

Warner now owns the EMI catalog and they are releasing some of it (some really good some of it) on LP. So all is not lost!

 

[the sound of Tao]

In the early days it was always fun to understand the difference between Arc Ref 3 vs Arc Ref 5, 5 vs 5SE, and so on till you get to the top of a brand. Compare it to other similar tubed brands, e.g. VTL, CJ. Then to SS. Similarly with other parts of the chain, like comparing carts or tables with the same cart etc is fun. Or dacs.

However I don't understand how one can evaluate gear without using the musical message. And that's why some people focus on hearing a bit more top, bit more bottom, etc while both components might be screwing up the realism equally. And if they both let through the musically message equally well, the differences might not really matter unless significant. And then the system philosophy matters more.

And the final goal is to get to a system that lets you just hear different performances/concerts.

And analogue has a giant head start over digital in terms of gear crush cache… digital lags perhaps most of all in the gear envy stakes. Both in engineering and operation analogue tends to be inherently a way sexier beast.

 

[tima]

I was talking more about the experience of music and the experience of sound within the experience of listening… they are clearly enmeshed and variable. In the experience of listening where you are appreciating the sounds and where you are appreciating the music is likely to be closer to quick change states so more power to you if you’ve mastered that level of awareness… I do think it’s a challenge at times to know the difference for me at least.

I wasn’t being flowery, was just dealing in abstracts. The quibble was that but that’s nothing much really.

When you encounter the boxmaster he will put your things in boxes.

With regard to enmeshment ...

Iirc music is sound organized in a way that can be appealing to those who hear it. Music is always sound but sound is not always music.

I find it fairly common to enjoy particular sounds that make up music.The sound of a growly trombone, the spitty raspiness of a tenor sax, the rosiny draw of bow across string. There are moments when such strikes me -- moments of delight -- it's not all flow and synthesis la-dee-da. On the other hand, if I'm able to achieve a state of limbic or even near-limbic listening, sound and music become categories of which I'm unaware.

 

[the sound of Tao]

When you encounter the boxmaster he will put your things in boxes.

With regard to enmeshment ...

Iirc music is sound organized in a way that can be appealing to those who hear it. Music is always sound but sound is not always music.

I find it fairly common to enjoy particular sounds that make up music.The sound of a growly trombone, the spitty raspiness of a tenor sax, the rosiny draw of bow across string. There are moments when such strikes me -- moments of delight -- it's not all flow and synthesis la-dee-da. On the other hand, if I'm able to achieve a state of limbic or even near-limbic listening, sound and music become categories of which I'm unaware.

This is where a good Venn diagram would be handy… the distinction between sound appreciation and music appreciation is one I make warily because it’s so not straightforward to separate the perceptual modalities used in this. I love many sounds for sound’s sake and they can also be part of music appreciation… hence the enmeshed abstraction.

I do fundamentally believe I have changed over the years in where the balance in that focus is for me, but it’s hard enough to get your head around your own perceptual processes without trying to then see if that is a common theme for others. Everytime anyone claims that they have a complete understanding of how perception works an angel somewhere loses its wings.

 

[bonzo75]

This is where a good Venn diagram would be handy…

With audiophiles you can get many Vain diagrams

 

[Al M.]

And analogue has a giant head start over digital in terms of gear crush cache… digital lags perhaps most of all in the gear envy stakes. Both in engineering and operation analogue tends to be inherently a way sexier beast.

Very true, but that doesn't affect me emotionally. Yet I can see how it affects others.

 

[Al M.]

With audiophiles you can get many Vain diagrams

LOL, good one.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Very true, but that doesn't affect me emotionally. Yet I can see how it affects others.

I do miss it… thank heavens for the glow of tubes.

 

[bonzo75]

And analogue has a giant head start over digital in terms of gear crush cache… digital lags perhaps most of all in the gear envy stakes. Both in engineering and operation analogue tends to be inherently a way sexier beast.

At the same time with analog the default is more to realism, so "upgrading" is less required if you get the records and the music. You don't have to beat the "did you hear that slightly more X" out of the next component. So while the analog exploration landscape is vast and fun, the satisfaction can be easily had with a wide variety of components if the system is right. So I kind of don't get it when people into analog are not into music. It is like being into cooking but into food, not caring for the taste.

 

[Al M.]

I do miss it… thank heavens for the glow of tubes.

Very true, too. Such a nice sight when listening in the dark.

 

[Gregm]

Very true, too. Such a nice sight when listening in the dark.

Additionally, you can stabilise a tube amplfication circuit without negative feedback

 

[Argonaut]

 

[hopkins]

No, but I consider digital playback to be substantially more accurate than analog playback.

So you don't know but you know?
You provide technical arguments to explain distortion of analog, then you answer that digital is not distortion-free, but don't explain why/how, and yet claim it is "more accurate"?

 

[hopkins]

You can listen to a LP recorded version of Misty here. The entire LP is just as good.

View attachment 131661

Thanks. The video sounds good (for a video), but I don't believe in evaluating analog versus digital on system videos. Listening to the Qobuz track on my headphones, everything sounds better than on a video, which is normal.

 

[bonzo75]

That angry cop who breaks in must be a digital guy. Or maybe it is Lagonda and just hates classical.

 

[Rensselaer]

Warner now owns the EMI catalog and they are releasing some of it (some really good some of it) on LP. So all is not lost!

according to Wiki, Sony still owns EMI. I tried but failed to include the link, but if you search does Sony own EMI wiki should come up with a list of all their holdings. I believe that Sony will only release DSD copies of the master tapes to others and have no reason to believe that they will release music from any label they own that is not digitally sourced.

 

[Carlos269]

So you don't know but you know?
You provide technical arguments to explain distortion of analog, then you answer that digital is not distortion-free, but don't explain why/how, and yet claim it is "more accurate"?

You have to understand that when it come to digital playback it matters at what stage and which format is used to discuss distortions so it is not quite as the distortions associated with analog playback.

Are you disputing that digital playback is more accurate than analog playback?

 

[Carlos269]

according to Wiki, Sony still owns EMI. I tried but failed to include the link, but if you search does Sony own EMI wiki should come up with a list of all their holdings. I believe that Sony will only release DSD copies of the master tapes to others and have no reason to believe that they will release music from any label they own that is not digitally sourced.

One thing that most have to understand and come to terms with is that Sony, as well as most other labels, archive their catalogs of music in digital format. Digital format is the only way to preserve the original quality. I know this from experience at the old Sony Classical Studios in New York. I have some of their proprietary in-house 18 bit - 48 Khz DASH digital tapes decks that they used for archiving their recordings. With the advent of DSD, Sony switched and started archiving their music in the highest quality format which is DSD. Sony archives are in DSD format.

 

[tima]

At the same time with analog the default is more to realism, so "upgrading" is less required if you get the records and the music

Exactly. The records and the music. When I was younger and listening to (and playing) rock and some punk I somehow knew that eventually I would return to my classical roots -- an intuition if you will. I bought classic classical that I knew more from playing in orchestra and piano than I did from stereo. Not all my buys were top choices -- I didn't know what was possible yet from stereo -- but I did have some luck and today I feel good/lucky that I paid attention to my instincts. Even during my CD period I still bought records. Even if you don't have top equipment but think that you will someday have a better system, don't stop allocating for records and music. There is much more information now about what are good recordings.