What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???
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Or when you have cone speakers, you properly "tame" the room. It took me years to get mine right. As for dynamic contrast, yes, with proper treatment a room becomes "quieter" and music arises from a calm background instead of a subtly noisy one (due to lingering reflections).
Hornsolutions Swen
Well-Known Member
Yes, I’m at least a bit familiar with David Griesinger’s work! He’s a pioneer in concert hall acoustics and psychoacoustics, notably laying the groundwork for modern reverberation algorithms at Lexicon and developing systems like LARES. His research on clarity, envelopment, and the perception of reflections is fascinating and, as you pointed out, highly applicable to home audio. It’s exciting to see how principles from large venues—like the balance between direct sound and controlled reflections—can enhance natural sound reproduction in smaller rooms.
The demos vividly illustrate the differences in reflection perception—how early reflections can disrupt clarity, while later, diffuse contributions (from around 50 ms onward) enliven the room without blurring focus. This ties directly into our discussion about horn loudspeakers: their tight directivity minimizes unwanted early reflections, particularly in the critical Blauert bands (frequency ranges around 300 Hz–3 kHz, where human hearing is most sensitive to spatial cues and localization, as described by Jens Blauert’s psychoacoustic research). By reducing these early reflections, horns preserve clarity in these perceptually critical bands. Yet, in a well-balanced room (not overly damped), they allow enough late reflections to create a sense of envelopment and immersion, much like a well-designed concert hall. This makes horns an elegant solution for achieving what Griesinger calls the “holy grail” of envelopment at home, without the room becoming a liability..However, it's time to sleep. 1:45am in France.
Best Regards S.
The demos vividly illustrate the differences in reflection perception—how early reflections can disrupt clarity, while later, diffuse contributions (from around 50 ms onward) enliven the room without blurring focus. This ties directly into our discussion about horn loudspeakers: their tight directivity minimizes unwanted early reflections, particularly in the critical Blauert bands (frequency ranges around 300 Hz–3 kHz, where human hearing is most sensitive to spatial cues and localization, as described by Jens Blauert’s psychoacoustic research). By reducing these early reflections, horns preserve clarity in these perceptually critical bands. Yet, in a well-balanced room (not overly damped), they allow enough late reflections to create a sense of envelopment and immersion, much like a well-designed concert hall. This makes horns an elegant solution for achieving what Griesinger calls the “holy grail” of envelopment at home, without the room becoming a liability..However, it's time to sleep. 1:45am in France.
Best Regards S.
Great discussion. What are your thoughts on whether or not corner horns behave differently from conventional horn speakers? I imagine the directivity remains similar, but utilizing the front and side walls of the room for bass output may change things.
My room is almost square so the first reflection from the main horn is the opposite corner, where I imagine the sound gets scattered and reflected differently. The reflections are certainly delayed.
My room is almost square so the first reflection from the main horn is the opposite corner, where I imagine the sound gets scattered and reflected differently. The reflections are certainly delayed.
Are these pinnacle horn systems DIY or commercial offerings?Regarding commercial offerings, I completely agree with you. The reasons for this can certainly be elaborated on later. However, if we also consider private installations, there are already 4-5 systems in Japan alone that represent the pinnacle. Additionally, at least 3 in China, and easily 5 in Korea. A few more in Thailand. In Germany, I know of 4, and there are also a few good ones in the USA.
The reason why horns in the DIY sector have a certain advantage over commercial systems is pretty self-explanatory.
I’m fairly certain that Kedar could contribute something meaningful to this
Best regards,
S
To say a horn systems easy to setup because of 20-30% is not in my experience. I walked in to a AG dealer to hear Trio G3 and ready to put money on them. The dealer said they were setup perfectly. But all I heard is muddy and non coherent sound. It is so bad that it is the worst sound I hear from any type of speaker. However, I always hear great sound from Rockport speakers in shows or dealer’s room.
What amps, source? And only the trios sounded muddy there? Did he have anything else?
Can’t remember exactly as it was more than two years ago. The source was CD and the power amp was Burmester or itron. The dealer had all the models of AG. But the experience was so underwhelming. I walked away as soon as I finished listening Trio G3. I am not saying horn speakers do not sound great. I am just saying setting up horn speaker is easier because more of direct sound is not in my experience.
sometimes with dealers changing stuff, it can be something as simple as forgetting to put a cable back on in the right direction, or not setting in this case the bass horn at the right cross point. I am not saying one should buy something that does not sound good, but if you hear it sounding good to your taste, replicating that at home will be much easier than a cone providing you have sufficient room size, and same set of electronics.
Hornsolutions Swen
Well-Known Member
Your claim that, based on your “experience,” it is not correct that horn loudspeakers are easier to install or less placement-critical than conventional loudspeakers is legitimate. The question I have is this: What is your experience based on? Does it solely stem from the one visit to an Avantgarde dealer you mentioned, or are there additional experiences you haven’t shared?
Regarding your listening experience that it sounded muffled, I’d like to note the following: If a horn loudspeaker doesn’t sound right, it’s not due to the horn concept itself but rather one or more potential errors that may have occurred. Don’t let it discourage you – such experiences are part of the learning process.
Best Regards S.
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Whilst not doubting your in room experience in the slightest , however something does seem to be anomalous , In that if it is one aspect of AG horns that one wouldn’t normally perceive it is muddy , quite the opposite . Did the whole audio spectrum sound as you describe or manifest itself more specifically e.g. mid bass / bass ?
Let’s not derail the thread. But just want to say the dealer was with me during the one hour audition. The sound seems fine to him.
Yes there was another horn audition. The dealer has several rooms of same brand but different models of horn speakers. Each room was big and big enough for large horn. The brand is German. I rather not disclose the brand name. He was vinyl fanatic. No digital sources in his rooms. The experience was not positive either but definitely more positive than Trio.
Corner horn bass can be operated horizontally or push them together to create a corner , using the floor and the wall behind it as the horn mouth.
However, this is only advisable if you don't have two identical corners in the room. The length of the wall determines the lower frequency of the horn. A corner of the room provides up to 9 dB more efficiency. With a large radial horn above it, you have a huge dispersion angle in the room. It sounds really good with it.
Hornsolutions Swen
Well-Known Member
Like I said in my comment, these are private installations. But they are build with old commercial system parts.Old, but gold.
Hornsolutions Swen
Well-Known Member
It's the only original double 16A (usually a mono horn) supported by the Western Electric 597A tweeter. A Western Electric 12025 4-cell midhorn also equipped with 555 drivers attached just below the lower lip of each horn. The woofer system sitting just underneath the 16A is based on 2 x WE 4191 woofers plus 2 x Eltus reproductions of the 4181.
The owner Kiyohara-san, needed more than 20 years to collect all the parts. That's pure passion for this hobby.
Best Regards Swen
Hornsolutions Swen
Well-Known Member
No, I mean two original WE16a in one installation. I know that Mr Chung has also a few, but not installed in one system yet.
This alone makes me prefer it over all other original WE installations. The owner decided to abandon the traditional WE approach and opted for a solution that is, from a technical perspective alone, superior. This relates to the ridiculous dogma that the 16A only sounds mono. Based on my experience, this is an utterly absurd claim.
That said, I think we should leave it at that, as this thread is about commercial horn loudspeakers that are accessible to anyone with the right budget.
Best Regards S.
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Well tannoy blacks and silvers were also made as mono speakers so people are effectively playing two monos. Germany has a couple of installations of WE 16a (not double) that you would know with varied drivers going into 22a type subs, where people had to wait to find matching drivers.
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