WANTED: Audiophile with Air Tight or My Sonic Lab AND Koetsu Listening Experience

[bazelio]

Soundsmiths made in US...how do they fit on the spectrum?
My five Japanese carts all different
Incisive Denon 103R
Lush Lyra Parnassus
Brittle Lyra Skala
Neutral Transfiguration Orpheus
Polite Transfiguration Temper Supreme

My European (British) Roksan Shiraz a little dry.

My American Soundsmith Straingauge, now you're talking...lush, incisive and transparent. Maybe the ultimate cultural chameleon, the best of Japanese and European characteristics.

Shakti absolutely loves his.

SS seemingly fall on the accurate side, no? They're pretty big on objective measurements as opposed to "voicing". An all American Soundsmith / AS2000 combo would be interesting. Ok I guess it needs a BritFi SME arm though. ;-)

PS, ever consider having that Parnassus rebuilt into an Olympos? I do think the Parnassus is the one cart in JCarr's suite that doesn't fit the Lyra mold.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

the Etsuro Gold is Japanese, and the company that builds it, Excel Sound, has a hand in many Japanese cartridges (named in this thread) as an OEM supplier. it's a small industry and closely nit. the Japanese CS Port tt and phono have a similar 'zen' ethos.

EU cartridges are less homogeneous; my Clearaudio GFS and recently departed Anna Diamond more different than similar......the many Vdh's also have a very different sound.

i do enjoy my darTZeel and Studers.

 

[PeterA]

I think ddk has similar thoughts, @PeterA . Though I find quite a bit of variation between, say, Koetsu, MSL, and Transfiguration. Lyra does fall on the analytical side, to me. Koetsu, I just haven't liked any time I've heard their various offerings, but the Coralstone might be the best of them that I've heard. MSL Platinum Sig I've only heard once, and only with about 10 hours on it. I'd agree it was in the middle. To me, it was too smooth though. I was wondering if it'd get a little grittier (in a good way) over time. I guess we should throw in the Japanese Top Wings too. Take a Blue Dragon, and I felt it was closer to the Euro sound. But then I felt the Red Sparrow combined attributes of both and was stunning. Incredibly detailed and with gorgeous tone and swing, but a somewhat laid back and easy going presentation at the same time. Not slow or thick at all. Almost hard to describe. Not a a stereotypical "Japanese" sound. Where are Benz Micro carts made? Not a stereotypical Euro cart sound to me, there.

The VdH Master Sig is probably the cream of the Euro crop. I think I'd be a bit afraid to detune the slight (IMO) sibilance out, though. I felt it was revealing of the source more so than sibilant on its own. If it no longer reveals sibilance, then what else does it no longer reveal is my concern.

Brian, I am not sure how rigid these characteristics are. I brought up the issue just to see what others think of my friend's comments.

Regarding my mdH Master Signature, I hardly notice any difference with the sibilance after it has been fine tuned. There is not difference in the rest of the sound. Apparently, there is a rise above 20K Hz. This rise was brought down to be more flat above 20K. The difference is extremely subtle and I can hardly notice a difference.

I would actually not describe the change as a "detune", but rather a fine-tuning. There is still a very nature level of sibilance with vocals and choral music, as one hears in real life. My MSL and AirTight exhibit ZERO such sibilance, and I find that less realistic. The cartridge is just as revealing as before, and sounds almost identical to my other vdH Master Sig. Yes, it may well be "the cream of the Euro crop" , though I have no real way of knowing. I hope that clarifies what I am hearing.

 

[Gardener]

I got to listen to koetsu urushi and to the jade with diamond cantilever regularly before lock down for almost two years, on FR 66s, as someone nearby owns one. This is is apart from the koetsu listening at Shakti which was fr64s. In many other cases on SME 3012r, SME V, Ikeda 407, koetsu arm, it just sounded poor. The urushi on the FR 66s sounded the best once the Soulution preamp was added into the system, And we have other SPU and Decca to compare it to.

For airtight vs MSL check tang. I also sold my koetsu coralstone to him after I heard it on kuzma 4p, and compared to Lyra atlas, never liked it.

Koetsu is silly. Silly price, silly sound. If anyone really wants it get an FR arm, arche headshell, and urushi with the paratrace is sufficient. Then set up the rest of your system to make it sound good.

Otherwise get any of the normal carts, they will all sound better. Or if you are a dealer get the koetsu because people will buy it from you suspecting midrange magic and some mythical legend

Koetsu system in London

http://zero-distortion.org/soulution-pre-kr-va-200/

Koetsu [ coralstone and blue lace ]

Sounds great on my AMG tonearm , Graham Arm

I think it just gets a bit personal what you like .

My new Lyra a lot more expensive than Koetsu

 

[ddk]

I think ddk has similar thoughts, @PeterA . Though I find quite a bit of variation between, say, Koetsu, MSL, and Transfiguration. Lyra does fall on the analytical side, to me. Koetsu, I just haven't liked any time I've heard their various offerings, but the Coralstone might be the best of them that I've heard. MSL Platinum Sig I've only heard once, and only with about 10 hours on it. I'd agree it was in the middle. To me, it was too smooth though. I was wondering if it'd get a little grittier (in a good way) over time. I guess we should throw in the Japanese Top Wings too. Take a Blue Dragon, and I felt it was closer to the Euro sound. But then I felt the Red Sparrow combined attributes of both and was stunning. Incredibly detailed and with gorgeous tone and swing, but a somewhat laid back and easy going presentation at the same time. Not slow or thick at all. Almost hard to describe. Not a a stereotypical "Japanese" sound. Where are Benz Micro carts made? Not a stereotypical Euro cart sound to me, there.

The VdH Master Sig is probably the cream of the Euro crop. I think I'd be a bit afraid to detune the slight (IMO) sibilance out, though. I felt it was revealing of the source more so than sibilant on its own. If it no longer reveals sibilance, then what else does it no longer reveal is my concern.

Setting aside the individual qualities of different cartridges I would say that the Japanese mc cartridges I've owned and heard have a typical beauty sound, pretty much like adding makeup to a face. The Western mc sound is more like face paint. Wonder if this had to do with the nature turntables made in each country. Thorens, EMT, Garrard, Linn, etc. all had a an overall warmish character vs the blander or more neutral Japanese tt of the same era. MM seems to have followed a different path. The disturbing trend I see for a couple of years from both camps now is a tendency towards hifi.

David

 

[Exlibris]

I do think European sound is more uncolored, transparent, natural, and components are more boutique. The SETs too. What Japan and EU are using as reference on the SETs horns side though, which is the sound of WE, Altec type, is American. I think those two and Apogees were the best products to come out of the US, and Dagostino who built something that could drive the Apogees. Some might argue he ruined the SETs philosophy, that's fine, but his Krell then, and the Dags today, are still as good as it gets for those applications that require it. And Devore is nice too on a more budget frame.

Otherwise I personally like a EU stuff. The only UK product I like are Tannoys, vintage.

I think the London Decca cartridges are an example of good UK products. I'd like an MC cartridge that captures some of that magic.

 

[bonzo75]

I think the London Decca cartridges are an example of good UK products. I'd like an MC cartridge that captures some of that magic.

Oh yes I like the Decca. Why don't you get that, it is cheap and apparently made for linear trackers

 

[Exlibris]

Oh yes I like the Decca. Why don't you get that, it is cheap and apparently made for linear trackers

I just sold my London Decca Reference because it won't work my Mayer D3A phonostage. I need an MC cart with the same sound.

 

[bonzo75]

I just sold my London Decca Reference because it won't work my Mayer D3A phonostage. I need an MC cart with the same sound.

The Decca reference sounds brilliant with the Allnic phono. It is the same playing in that video in the link with Allnic A6000 and the other carts being koetsu and SPU. red sparrow on the linear tracker and Mayer phono sounds excellent

 

[Exlibris]

The Decca reference sounds brilliant with the Allnic phono. It is the same playing in that video in the link with Allnic A6000 and the other carts being koetsu and SPU. red sparrow on the linear tracker and Mayer phono sounds excellent

The Koetsus have the low compliance that I need. But may be too coloured.

 

[spiritofmusic]

SS seemingly fall on the accurate side, no? They're pretty big on objective measurements as opposed to "voicing". An all American Soundsmith / AS2000 combo would be interesting. Ok I guess it needs a BritFi SME arm though. ;-)

PS, ever consider having that Parnassus rebuilt into an Olympos? I do think the Parnassus is the one cart in JCarr's suite that doesn't fit the Lyra mold.

Oh, the Parnassus came and went too quickly in my system. Love the memory of it to this day.

No, for me my LPSd Straingauge SG really seems to get out of the way of the music. Neutral but full blooded, warm but turns on a dime.

The only cart I've owned where all I comment on is the lp, not the cart's interpretation of it. And an uncanny synergy w my rim drive/LT arm.

Shakti bowled over his LPSd SG, and he has an exemplary Boulder phono and more carts to compare than you can shake a stick at.

 

[denimhunter]

I got to listen to koetsu urushi and to the jade with diamond cantilever regularly before lock down for almost two years, on FR 66s, as someone nearby owns one. This is is apart from the koetsu listening at Shakti which was fr64s. In many other cases on SME 3012r, SME V, Ikeda 407, koetsu arm, it just sounded poor. The urushi on the FR 66s sounded the best once the Soulution preamp was added into the system, And we have other SPU and Decca to compare it to.

For airtight vs MSL check tang. I also sold my koetsu coralstone to him after I heard it on kuzma 4p, and compared to Lyra atlas, never liked it.

Koetsu is silly. Silly price, silly sound. If anyone really wants it get an FR arm, arche headshell, and urushi with the paratrace is sufficient. Then set up the rest of your system to make it sound good.

Otherwise get any of the normal carts, they will all sound better. Or if you are a dealer get the koetsu because people will buy it from you suspecting midrange magic and some mythical legend

Koetsu system in London

http://zero-distortion.org/soulution-pre-kr-va-200/

A new Koetsu is silly price. Used Koetsu will be better reasonably prices. I have Koetsu Onyx (retipped by AnaMighty) made by the old man for some years now. One of the main strength of Koetsu cart is in production of inner details. A subtle reproduction of nuance and atmosphere of the recording that very few cartridges seem to be able to do.

Unfortunately that subtleties is so easily lost. It’s not particularly dynamic nor have wide frequency response. I think koetsu prefers idler drive TT with SUT and tube phono/preamp that has wide and even frequency response. If all’s right time slows playing through the Koetsu. And the cart can sometimes take u to that gin joint where Coltrane‘s sax in full flight can laid bare.

Koetsu is a second cart for me, I usually use Phasemation which is even and balanced. Great cart. Much like the MSL.
I thought Air Tight cart is made by MSL?

 

[JackD201]

It's a pity you have to pay silly prices in the US and EU.

 

[Exlibris]

It's a pity you have to pay silly prices in the US and EU.

On eBay from Japan and Hong Kong they aren't so bad.

 

[bonzo75]

A new Koetsu is silly price. Used Koetsu will be better reasonably prices. I have Koetsu Onyx (retipped by AnaMighty) made by the old man for some years now. One of the main strength of Koetsu cart is in production of inner details. A subtle reproduction of nuance and atmosphere of the recording that very few cartridges seem to be able to do.

Unfortunately that subtleties is so easily lost. It’s not particularly dynamic nor have wide frequency response. I think koetsu prefers idler drive TT with SUT and tube phono/preamp that has wide and even frequency response. If all’s right time slows playing through the Koetsu. And the cart can sometimes take u to that gin joint where Coltrane‘s sax in full flight can laid bare.

Koetsu is a second cart for me, I usually use Phasemation which is even and balanced. Great cart. Much like the MSL.
I thought Air Tight cart is made by MSL?

Speaking of Onyx and idlers, This was the Onyx Platinum that we heard http://zero-distortion.org/micro_seiki_8000_mkii_koetsu_colibri_thoress_airtight/ - it was on FR64s so was good.

Speaking of idlers, here we heard it on the Reed with Reed armhttp://zero-distortion.org/reed-idlerfeickert-firebirdpluto-12athales-blumenhofer/

At Gian's heard the coralstone with diamond cantlilever on the 124.

I think all carts I have heard do inner detail and nuance more than a koetsu. That said I do like my friend's urushi with paratrace on FR 66s since he got the soulution preamp. That's on a Brinkmann Balance.

 

[Ovenmitt]

Interesting discussion.... where would one say the Ortofon SPU or EMT falls in the EU/Japanese spectrum?

 

[ddk]

Interesting discussion.... where would one say the Ortofon SPU or EMT falls in the EU/Japanese spectrum?

Definitely in the European camp, original EMT cartridges were based on Ortofon design.

david.

 

[bonzo75]

Interesting discussion.... where would one say the Ortofon SPU or EMT falls in the EU/Japanese spectrum?

The EMT carts are neutral, lively, energetic, big sounding. Not pretty sounding

 

[ddk]

The EMT carts are neutral, lively, energetic, big sounding. Not pretty sounding

Face paint!

 

[bazelio]

Definitely in the European camp, original EMT cartridges were based on Ortofon design.

david.

I think the early SPUs were more mascara though, no? Then came A90 and good googlie...