WANTED: Audiophile with Air Tight or My Sonic Lab AND Koetsu Listening Experience

[bonzo75]

I think the early SPUs were more mascara though, no? Then came A90 and good googlie...

A90 and A95 (non SPU) were very neutral, agile, and nuanced. I prefer both to Anna in some ways. They were quite different from SPUs. SPUs have a nice body, tone and flow. They are less nuanced, roll off highs a bit, and give a tonal warmth. I prefer SPUs to most Koetsus where audiophiles mistakenly think Koetsu is warm - SPU is the right warm, Koetsu to me is the wrong warm. I don't like SPUs in modern cone systems, but I like them in SETs horns. The vdh strad is a very opposite cart to a SPU, but both sound great in SETs horns.

 

[awsmone]

hmmm

i think your trying to pigeon hole an eclectic bunch of cartridges into a crude dichotomy without evidence of its validity

I will give you some food for thought

the owner of FM acoustics recently said they needed to add a high frequency attentuator in above 20 kHz into their phono stage as many expensive cartridges had excessive high frequency reponses which needed taming. He said they were created that way to make them sound more analytical at first demonstration

are we really talking about a east west divide or an aural marketing exercise

i struggle to understands Keds logic about Koetsu that it doesn’t sound correct except when it does ?

 

[bonzo75]

I have heard urushi, coralstone platinum, coralstone diamond, black, onyx, rosewood platinum, jade diamond, in multiple set ups and each time compared. Koetsu sounded pretty poor to me except on FR arms, with arche headshell, which is also incidentally what syntax does though I don't know him myself, and sounded much better when Soulution preamp was brought in. And even then there were much better carts

 

[PeterA]

Setting aside the individual qualities of different cartridges I would say that the Japanese mc cartridges I've owned and heard have a typical beauty sound, pretty much like adding makeup to a face. The Western mc sound is more like face paint. Wonder if this had to do with the nature turntables made in each country. Thorens, EMT, Garrard, Linn, etc. all had a an overall warmish character vs the blander or more neutral Japanese tt of the same era. MM seems to have followed a different path. The disturbing trend I see for a couple of years from both camps now is a tendency towards hifi.

David

Hello David, I do not quite follow these descriptions. Are you saying that make up done well can enhance a beautiful face, though that face does not resemble the natural face coming out of a shower or the ocean, or seen first thing in the morning, while face paint (think warriors, actors on stage, football players) is decidedly unnatural because it does not reflect reality and is meant to confer a message, project meaning, or deflect glare?

Do you think cartridges exist which exhibit little character of their own, simply presenting the information within the grooves? And if so, do they fall more into the make up end or the face paint end, or the MM type? I presume you mean the disturbing trend with MC cartridges from both camps is that they are moving away from a natural sound by imposing too much sound of their own.

You seem to infer that you think MM cartridges are different and perhaps more "natural" sounding as a class? Is that correct? Are there any MC cartridges that remind you of the best MM types?

Thanks.

 

[ddk]

Hello David, I do not quite follow these descriptions. Are you saying that make up done well can enhance a beautiful face, though that face does not resemble the natural face coming out of a shower or the ocean, or seen first thing in the morning, while face paint (think warriors, actors on stage, football players) is decidedly unnatural because it does not reflect reality and is meant to confer a message, project meaning, or deflect glare?

I'm using these terms in a very narrow sense and only because I can't come with a better visual description. Makeup in this narrative is a means of covering blemishes and make the face underneath more attractive than it is, more beautiful. Problem is it's always pretty and never comes off, some like that.

Face paint doesn't necessarily cover the whole face and it's not intended to cover up blemishes or necessarily be attractive. In this context face paint is more lines and stripe conveying an emotion through color and form but you still see the face beneath as it is, not modifying it to be something that it isn't. Of course in both scenarios extremes exist, think of them as a clown face and Kabuki makeup, but I wasn't alluding to these extremes that are obvious to everyone.

Do you think cartridges exist which exhibit little character of their own, simply presenting the information within the grooves? And if so, do they fall more into the make up end or the face paint end, or the MM type? I presume you mean the disturbing trend with MC cartridges from both camps is that they are moving away from a natural sound by imposing too much sound of their own.

This question is more specific than discussing trends and I can answer it only based on my the cartridges I've spent time with. Yes they're part of a chain, system synergy comes into play as do many other variables but given proper setup you can hear a cartridge's character in different systems. Based on my experience this is how I would categorize mc cartridges. I only named a few outstanding ones because they deserve to be named, there's a bigger majority in other groups that we can lump together without naming for obvious reasons.

You seem to infer that you think MM cartridges are different and perhaps more "natural" sounding as a class? Is that correct? Are there any MC cartridges that remind you of the best MM types?

Thanks.

Not inferring anything regarding mm cartridges, simply sampled too few and mostly vintage to form any real opinion so I wanted to separate them for now but there have been a couple that surprised me with their naturalness and neutrality. I can't tell you if it's a function of their design or just that they're not played through a stepup device, just need more time researching.

david

 

[PeterA]

I'm using these terms in a very narrow sense and only because I can't come with a better visual description. Makeup in this narrative is a means of covering blemishes and make the face underneath more attractive than it is, more beautiful. Problem is it's always pretty and never comes off, some like that.

Face paint doesn't necessarily cover the whole face and it's not intended to cover up blemishes or necessarily be attractive. In this context face paint is more lines and stripe conveying an emotion through color and form but you still see the face beneath as it is, not modifying it to be something that it isn't. Of course in both scenarios extremes exist, think of them as a clown face and Kabuki makeup, but I wasn't alluding to these extremes that are obvious to everyone.



This question is more specific than discussing trends and I can answer it only based on my the cartridges I've spent time with. Yes they're part of a chain, system synergy comes into play as do many other variables but given proper setup you can hear a cartridge's character in different systems. Based on my experience this is how I would categorize mc cartridges. I only named a few outstanding ones because they deserve to be named, there's a bigger majority in other groups that we can lump together without naming for obvious reasons.

View attachment 63986



Not inferring anything regarding mm cartridges, simply sampled too few and mostly vintage to form any real opinion so I wanted to separate them for now but there have been a couple that surprised me with their naturalness and neutrality. I can't tell you if it's a function of their design or just that they're not played through a stepup device, just need more time researching.

david

Thank you David. I wanted to know more specifically what you meant with the makeup/face paint and your general thoughts about the industry. This is a very good and concise post. I appreciate it. The graph is very clear.

 

[Mobiusman]

As a new owner of a MSL Signature Platinum on a Bergmann Galder/Odin with a VAC phono pre that has replaced a ZYtX Optimum, it is too soon to make a final juidgement, BUT I must say that even at this early stage with break-in and tweaks to follow, I already find this cartridge incredibly appealing with regard to soundstage, being able to maintaina distinctness to all compis onents in the total sound, and, for me most important, trememdously emotinally stimuilating, which in my case tends to draw me into the music and out of my head. What I cannot discern is how much of what I like is the cartridge or the combination of the cartridge with the straight tracking Bergmann. All I know is if there is a yearning factor to wanting to listeni to music this cartridge turntable/arm are at the top of my personal scale.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I love koetsu cartridges and believe they are the finest available.

 

[advanced101]

My good friend on these forums has the 14" 4Point Kuzma and Opus.
I have a Blue Lace on an FR-64S (silver wired), Arche Headshell & Micro Seiki base nut (The large one).
Both of us run the Slage Ag SUTs.
I have listened to different iterations of his system over the years so I am comfortable making comparisons across the two systems.
The two Arm/ Cart combinations are more alike than different. Both do bass and mid-range very well. The Koetsu on the FR has a bit more sparkle in the treble. Both track very well although the Opus on the Kuzma has a slight advantage. I need to send my FR to get refurbished.
The Opus is a bit quieter in the groove with less surface noise.
Both measure very well. Both are built very well with very little Azimuth adjustment (<0.25 degrees) to achieve perfect balance. On Adjust+ the channel separation of the Opus is 38/38 and the Blue Lace is 39/39. Phase wise the Opus manages equal phase at the same point as channel separation. On the Blue Lace, it is slightly off. The difference between perfect phase and channel separation is less than .2 degrees (Using the upgraded spirit level from Feickert).
I prefer to match channel separation vs phase, I have went back and forth many times.
VTA, I prefer near level on the Opus with the Koetsu being a hair tail down.
If I were buying a Arm/ Cart today I would probably lean more towards the Opus but would think about a slightly different arm, maybe the 4Point11 or an Acoustical Systems arm. I would try to bring more sparkle to the highs.
But, when the Koetsu is time for a rebuild I will go with the Diamond Cantilever as this will likely yield extra improvements. I will also move to an Acoustical Systems arm or the Glanz 124.