Vinyl and Digital: How does the sound or listening experience differ?

[hopkins]

What is the name and model of the amplifier you own that amplifies a digital signal but is neither a “digital amplifier” nor PWM?

If it is truly a pure digital amplifier, the signal remains digital only up to the point where it leaves the amplifier at the binding posts. The loudspeaker then inevitably converts that signal into an analog waveform. A musical audio signal is vibration by nature, and analog.

So there is absolutely a conversion at the speaker end. In this context, you are actually talking about things you clearly know nothing about.

ECDesigns' powerDAC-SX: a new way of driving your speakers and headphones

I am creating this topic in the "General Audio Forum" as it deals with a product that falls in neither the "Digital Audio Forum" nor the "Power Amplifiers and Preamplifiers Forum", and is worthy of your attention. I am a (happy) customer - I have rambled about this product on my system thread...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Unfortunately their website is down for a few days, so you won’t be able to read their explanations. When you get a chance to read it, don’t hesitate to reach out if you have questions (in that thread I linked above, not here). Most people have to read it over several times before getting it. They are working on a more “didactic” presentation with nice graphics.

 

[Al M.]

For many listeners, suppression of some analog artifacts sounds like "less organic".

Well, there's that, too.

In one extreme example, I have heard a -- to some probably seductive -- kind of "flow" on a string quartet reproduction that was clearly an artifact of an inferior vinyl pressing. It had little to do with how a string quartet sounds live, but rather, that "flow" was simply old-fashioned smear. I am sure by some listeners it would be interpreted as "organic".

Not that digital has no artifacts -- it does -- but not all "pretty" sounds from vinyl are evidence of greater realism.

 

[213Cobra]

Dear @hopkins and @213Cobra,

A phono output—or any analog signal—passed through an ADC–DAC chain has audible effects. The organic nature of the original analog signal and its lifelike quality diminish depending on the quality of the ADC and DAC used. One thing, however, is certain: a signal that has passed through ADC–DAC does not sound the same as the original analog signal before conversion. If you hear otherwise, you simply need better equipment to reveal the differences. The effect is very audible. There is no such thing as a truly “transparent” ADC or DAC. That claim is nonsense. I know this because I’ve tested it myself.

Analog additions in the signal path are no different in principle from their digital counterparts such as ADCs and DACs. The reality is that anything added to the signal path—digital or analog—is audible. Even digital processing applied to a signal that already exists inside a computer is audible. Hard drives and USB sticks have their own sound signatures. Copying or moving files between computers, or transferring them over the internet, also affects sound quality. The effect of digital processing or add-ons is almost always in the same direction: toward a more “plastic” presentation that wipes out organic character.

I didn't make any statement that said or implied that phono signals processed through an ADC>DAC sequence are absent audible effects for having been through a digital mill. I didn't comment on that aspect at all. I just said the resulting music sounded "analog." I didn't say it sounded exactly like same content processed with my analog-only preamps. Unfortunately, we don't have a way of knowing the sound of the "original analog signal" because we can't listen to the output of the phono cartridge without signal amplification and RIAA correction. No two analog phono preamps sound the same, and some of them aren't particularly transparent, either. So, we only listen to and evaluate the net output of phono preamps in comparison, if we're listening to componentized systems. All sorts of sonic differences are easily discernible listening through my hifi systems, and sufficiently so to hear that some analog gear is less transparent and less musically authentic than some digital gear, and vice versa.

I am aligned with the "everything affects sound quality" school of audio thinking. As a practical matter, in the digital realm we can't avoid file transfers, data transporting, storage media, etc. Yeah, OK, they all have a signature. So do the component parts of analog circuits where same-value-different-materials resistors and capacitors bring specific sonic signatures. Noting in audio signal processing is truly neutral. An ADC-based phono preamp allows digital conversion and storage of a rare analog vinyl disc. Some noise can be reduced. Other adjustments are possible. If the output is still musically tenable, the digital phono preamp will have utility and musical validity.

I think we are past the stage when everything digital rendered a "plastic presentation" outcome. That and worse was once true. Now, however, we are able to just put digital and analog components having same functions in the same bin and just evaluate them against each other. When digital loses, fine. When it wins, that should be fine too. We all throw around "transparency" as an audio characteristic. I think one can prove to oneself what it is, but transparency is an imprecise term for audio. You can't really prove to another person what it is and when it is present. I insist on transparency in audio and so do a lot of other people here, but I can't be certain we're all describing and valuing exactly the same thing.

Phil