Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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Yes, your article on Leifs system was a great read and an interesting data point. But it supports my points. I would love to know the clear reasons, I see only very small group preference in those arguments. Interesting, but not an explanation.

Survival arguments would please Charles Darwin fans and sound great, but statistically are not valid in this hobby. And sorry, IMHO implementation is the keyword in audio, materials are second place.
It’s the same reason that modern recordings and LPs sound like Crap, specially when compared to the Golden Age recordings. Those engineers are gone and the knowledge they had along wry them. The same situation with speakers from the Golden Age era, the know how just isn’t there.

You’re wrong about materials, it’s extremely important, implementation is a different part of the equation not less or more important. A good example is the modern heavy vinyl formulation, it’s horrible and dead sounding no matter the implementation! Vinyl chemistry is another lost art! Bar a few thIngs and brands we can go through the gamut of highend with similar comparisons.

david
 
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Rob181

Well-Known Member
Oct 1, 2014
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Thanks for your kind words.
Your system must sound awesome.
Do you have a system thread?
I would like to ask you about your Lamm hybrids compared to other amps you tried...
But better not in this thread

Sorry for being OT :oops:
Please - why not - this is a subject I'm interested in...
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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It’s the same reason that modern recordings and LPs sound like Crap, specially when compared to the Golden Age recordings. Those engineers are gone and the knowledge they had along wry them. The same situation with speakers from the Golden Age era, the know how just isn’t there.

You’re wrong about materials, it’s extremely important, implementation is a different part of the equation not less or more important. A good example is the modern heavy vinyl formulation, it’s horrible and dead sounding no matter the implementation! Vinyl chemistry is another lost art! Bar a few thIngs and brands we can go through the gamut of highend with similar comparisons.

david

OK, we agree on modern LPs - they sound really poor - but deeply disagree on modern recordings. IMHO modern recordings using top digital sound great, carrying a lot of information and are true masterpieces of stereo sound recording. There is life beyond the Golden Age recordings. Surely now we are addressing preference.

BTW, I was addressing just speakers, not chemistry of vinyl. Anyway, probably most of these vinyl ingredients would be forbidden by current regulations.
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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OK, we agree on modern LPs - they sound really poor - but deeply disagree on modern recordings. IMHO modern recordings using top digital sound great, carrying a lot of information and are true masterpieces of stereo sound recording. There is life beyond the Golden Age recordings. Surely now we are addressing preference.

BTW, I was addressing just speakers, not chemistry of vinyl. Anyway, probably most of these vinyl ingredients would be forbidden by current regulations.
I used LPs because comparison is simple and I knew you’d see it easily regarding lost knowledge and materials. It’s the same situation with speakers, knowledge is gone as are the materials and components. Last week I tried to rewire a pair of vintage speakers replacing the 60+ old wires with modern ones because of they were a bit corroded in some areas, I ended up keeping the old wires even with the corrosion.

Digital is modern tech nothing to do with this conversation about vintage products.

david
 
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PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 7, 2011
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Uwiik, Have you considered corner horns? As I start to read these horn/SET threads, I don’t find much discussion about corner horns.
 

cal3713

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Nov 2, 2020
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Uwiik, Have you considered corner horns? As I start to read these horn/SET threads, I don’t find much discussion about corner horns.
Are there commercial offerings in this format from companies besides klipsch?

I agree that they seem to be a great solution to rooms like these.

I'm considering a move to Panama and have been wondering about this design (both commerical and diy) in that context too. Their standard house format also seems to call out for corner horns.
 

christoph

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Dec 12, 2015
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Uwiik, Have you considered corner horns? As I start to read these horn/SET threads, I don’t find much discussion about corner horns.
There is (another) german Horn Speaker specialist (Martion)


He has two models with corner horn woofers:


He usually showed close (walking distance) to the main event during the High End im Munich and his speakers always sounded very good to me.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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Portugal
I used LPs because comparison is simple and I knew you’d see it easily regarding lost knowledge and materials. It’s the same situation with speakers, knowledge is gone as are the materials and components. Last week I tried to rewire a pair of vintage speakers replacing the 60+ old wires with modern ones because of they were a bit corroded in some areas, I ended up keeping the old wires even with the corrosion.

Digital is modern tech nothing to do with this conversation about vintage products.

david

You referred to modern recordings. Than digital becomes mandatory in this conversation, unless we admit that vintage horns are not optimum for digital recordings or digital media - an interesting subject for a separate thread?

Digital recording needs a different perspective on stereo recording and mastering techniques.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Diesis, Universum or Anima, all would be on my very short list of horns to consider along with some vintage horns and the Pureaudioproject horns that I have gone with. The WVL son would also be a speaker I’d love to hear also.

Having spent 100s of hours with the Animas they are a speaker that is very lovely in real life and if they suit you they are a speaker that you could take to the very end with you. I’d love to hear the Universums to get that data point as well. The Diesis look enticing also and the quality seems fantastic.

But I probably wouldn’t commit to anything more expensive than the WVL Sons myself without actually having a considerable personal trial simply because horns are so characteristically divergent and it comes down to the nature and characteristics that you then lean towards.

Also living with horns for some time shapes your listening more than any speaker I’ve experienced so living with something and discovering what type of horn lover you are is to me a good investment. Me, I love me a two way OB with a wide bander horn. Hope you find your version of pure horn excitement and connection. Enjoy the journey.

Anima, universum, trios, big dual FLH etc are better than WVL sons. With WVL you will need to listen to at least the swings which are quite expensive. WVL son competes with devore O96
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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You referred to modern recordings. Than digital becomes mandatory in this conversation, unless we admit that vintage horns are not optimum for digital recordings or digital media - an interesting subject for a separate thread?

Digital recording needs a different perspective on stereo recording and mastering techniques.

Vintage and modern horns are great for digital, the Altec, Leif's, universum Anima trios are great with digital. And even simple, cheap digital works great. All these systems have digital in fact manis Anima is digital only room corrected
 
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ddk

Industry Expert
May 19, 2013
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You referred to modern recordings. Than digital becomes mandatory in this conversation, unless we admit that vintage horns are not optimum for digital recordings or digital media - an interesting subject for a separate thread?
I keep hearing this and also that horns can't play rock and pop but that's not my experience, at least with vintage horns. I can't speak to modern horn speakers since I have a hard time listening to most of them with any type of music.

Digital recording needs a different perspective on stereo recording and mastering techniques.
Agreed, it's a different animal from analog in every respect.

david
 

rando

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Sep 22, 2019
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I keep hearing this and also that horns can't play rock and pop but that's not my experience, at least with vintage horns. I can't speak to modern horn speakers since I have a hard time listening to most of them with any type of music.


Agreed, it's a different animal from analog in every respect.

david

This is very reasonable. I chanced overstatement in an earlier comment on the broader reception horns, verging towards what Bob² are concerned in, garner stateside. You and Kedar both suggest a reality of digital playback I've been increasingly curious about.

Nobody is arguing over consumer accessible technology faltering taking all the other requisites of production and innovation along for the ride (As a manufacturer I doubt you'd disagree a lot of lifeblood continues being poured into new goods despite controls in place that keep everyone shuffling forward at a pace set by multinational corporations). However, nothing is stopping you, me, or the next guy from sinking a few large trees worth of wood in a pond for the next dozen years. Nor rediscovering any of the other old world techniques and logic supposedly lost to the ravages of time.

It has never been about surpassing the height of previous generations shoulders. In reality standing tall enough to draw level remains the challenge.
 

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