Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
17,696
2,224
810
Portugal
My humble setup:
Kondo Japan Souga + M77 (thank you, @Rhapsody!) that plays through these custom horns:
They are built around the 1940s (yes, 1940s) RCA 1443 high voltage field coil midrange. Frequency response: 300 - 7500 Hz, and > 110dB efficient.
Fostex TA500MkII horn super tweeters and Supravox 12" field coil drivers in a LaScala style folded horn walnut enclosure round out the setup.
Low end comes from a 500W transmission line sub.
This is more than enough for my small room.

The (ugly!) solid state power supply you see behind the speaker is being replaced by the mercury vapour power supply you see below (unfortunately, the first version caught fire!).

As much as I love these, it's been more than 5 years since I designed and commissioned them. For my next room, I will just order from @Rhapsody. Bob has done all of the hard work, and delivery won't take 5+ years ;).

View attachment 77611
They look great! I have recently browsed the Supravox catalogue - member Airbearing also uses a Supravox fieldcoil unit in his speakers, it could be a promising bet - but could not find anything over 99 dB/W. even field coil. How do you match the bass drive to the medium?
 

Bobvin

VIP/Donor
Jun 7, 2014
941
990
340
Redland, Oregon
www.purewatersystems.com
Surge had said: (but looks like he deleted which is good)

"Avoid a design that is not time and phase aligned. You can tell that the Diesis Roma Triode is not time-aligned - look at the midrange driver position relative to the other drivers. Also, the only horns that you should consider are conical. All of the others color the sound."

Surge also had said "Audition before you buy"

The second comment makes sense, and certainly is good advice in this hobby for all purchases, though it is not always practical and sometimes we take leaps of faith based on reviews, advice, recommendations from those we trust.

The first comment, however, is not accurate as the Roma has the same 9" from the throat of the horn driver to the 15" woofer it mates with. Absolute time alignment ala Wilson? I can't say. I think the comment is disingenuous, as is "only consider conical". Until you sit and listen, you are at best making a guess. I've heard the Roma, as has JYACO above. I personally found the ROMA to extremely engaging and musical. I did not spend hours upon hours trying to pick apart the speaker, but Surge's comment suggest the speaker isn't worth considering at all—where I feel "disingenuous" is not out of place. Until you hear for yourself, its all rumor, opinion, and hearsay.

In interest of disclosure, I will be one of the Rhapsody remote listening room locations, and will have the ROMA available for auditions. One of the reasons I chose to go this route is because I really, really wanted to hear ROMA again. Now I will have that opportunity in my own room, and be able to compare and contrast with Alsyvox and Bayz. I look forward to the occasion to share that experience with those who do want to "audition before you buy".

And Surge, your horns look amazing. I'd love to hear them!
 

Surge1

Member
Feb 12, 2021
29
23
5
46
They look great! I have recently browsed the Supravox catalogue - member Airbearing also uses a Supravox fieldcoil unit in his speakers, it could be a promising bet - but could not find anything over 99 dB/W. even field coil. How do you match the bass drive to the medium?
The 285-EXC are 102dB
 

Surge1

Member
Feb 12, 2021
29
23
5
46
Surge had said: (but looks like he deleted which is good)

"Avoid a design that is not time and phase aligned. You can tell that the Diesis Roma Triode is not time-aligned - look at the midrange driver position relative to the other drivers. Also, the only horns that you should consider are conical. All of the others color the sound."

Surge also had said "Audition before you buy"

The second comment makes sense, and certainly is good advice in this hobby for all purchases, though it is not always practical and sometimes we take leaps of faith based on reviews, advice, recommendations from those we trust.

The first comment, however, is not accurate as the Roma has the same 9" from the throat of the horn driver to the 15" woofer it mates with. Absolute time alignment ala Wilson? I can't say. I think the comment is disingenuous, as is "only consider conical". Until you sit and listen, you are at best making a guess. I've heard the Roma, as has JYACO above. I personally found the ROMA to extremely engaging and musical. I did not spend hours upon hours trying to pick apart the speaker, but Surge's comment suggest the speaker isn't worth considering at all—where I feel "disingenuous" is not out of place. Until you hear for yourself, its all rumor, opinion, and hearsay.

In interest of disclosure, I will be one of the Rhapsody remote listening room locations, and will have the ROMA available for auditions. One of the reasons I chose to go this route is because I really, really wanted to hear ROMA again. Now I will have that opportunity in my own room, and be able to compare and contrast with Alsyvox and Bayz. I look forward to the occasion to share that experience with those who do want to "audition before you buy".

And Surge, your horns look amazing. I'd love to hear them!
Thanks Bob!
I also didn't realize that you were the one who posted the photo of the Diesis Roma Triode. Since I've known you for many years, and I'm a customer, I 100% trust and value your opinion and I know the products you sell are all world-class. So if you sell it, I'm sure it's top-notch for the price and category that it's in.

There's so much art in these products, more so than many would like to admit. That's why measurements and science matter far less than what has been achieved as a whole, and how it sounds and makes you feel. So yeah, I was wrong to dismiss them just because they are not time-aligned... and actually it seems like they are time-aligned!
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
17,696
2,224
810
Portugal
The 285-EXC are 102dB

Thanks - I did not realize than the 285 series have a cone diameter of almost 30 cm (12") - it looked smaller in the photos. As far as I remember Airbearing used 400-EXC in his speaker, but it is not currently manufactured and none of the 380 series is currently available in the field coil class.
 

Bobvin

VIP/Donor
Jun 7, 2014
941
990
340
Redland, Oregon
www.purewatersystems.com
Thanks Bob!
I also didn't realize that you were the one who posted the photo of the Diesis Roma Triode. Since I've known you for many years, and I'm a customer, I 100% trust and value your opinion and I know the products you sell are all world-class. So if you sell it, I'm sure it's top-notch for the price and category that it's in.

There's so much art in these products, more so than many would like to admit. That's why measurements and science matter far less than what has been achieved as a whole, and how it sounds and makes you feel. So yeah, I was wrong to dismiss them just because they are not time-aligned... and actually it seems like they are time-aligned!
Confusion buster alert...

Bob V., of Rhapsody.audio fame, shall hearby be known as Bob.east.

I, Bobvin, who will be hosting a Rhapsody Listening Room in Portland, Oregon, shall hearby be known as Bob.west.

Got it?

To confuse matters more, Bob.east’s new address is on Portland Ave in Brooklyn:cool:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Surge1

Rhapsody

VIP/Donor
Jan 16, 2013
1,809
2,271
815
NYC
Thanks Bob!
I also didn't realize that you were the one who posted the photo of the Diesis Roma Triode. Since I've known you for many years, and I'm a customer, I 100% trust and value your opinion and I know the products you sell are all world-class. So if you sell it, I'm sure it's top-notch for the price and category that it's in.

There's so much art in these products, more so than many would like to admit. That's why measurements and science matter far less than what has been achieved as a whole, and how it sounds and makes you feel. So yeah, I was wrong to dismiss them just because they are not time-aligned... and actually it seems like they are time-aligned!
Surge1. Do you now get it with BobVin and me? BobVin posted the RT pic and Bob is the Portland upcoming Rhapsody Listening Room:) We did all this to confuse people and draw attention to ourselves.

We also have a Jerry in Palm Desert - RLR and Jerry in Chicago RLR.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: Bobvin

Surge1

Member
Feb 12, 2021
29
23
5
46
Surge1. Do you now get it with BobVin and me? BobVin posted the RT pic and Bob is the Portland upcoming Rhapsody Listening Room:) We did all this to confuse people and draw attention to ourselves.

We also have a Jerry in Palm Desert - RLR and Jerry in Chicago RLR.
Aha! I had not realized that before, but now I do. That’s kind of funny! At least you are working together and not competitors!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhapsody and Bobvin

Rhapsody

VIP/Donor
Jan 16, 2013
1,809
2,271
815
NYC
Yes, all of the seven RLRs will have Rhapsody.Audio products on display and for customer demonstrations. The actual purchases will go through Rhapsody in NY.
 

Bobvin

VIP/Donor
Jun 7, 2014
941
990
340
Redland, Oregon
www.purewatersystems.com
In the off chance somebody thinks I’m fooling when I mention I thought the Diesis Roma were exceptional, back in 2019 when I first heard them I visualized them in my own room—literally. A little photoshop magic and I dropped them into my room as you can see.

As my pockets are not bottomless, and I always have the MoF (Minister of Finance) to contend with, becoming a RLR has meant offloading my amps, preamp, and Wilson speakers. The amps sold in a couple days, the speakers are on Audiogon, and the pre-amp will be shortly. So the picture below is going to need further tweaking to drop a Pilium Achilles stereo amp where the ARC mono’s were.

1655BDC5-8C6A-41A4-A5F1-64A3F9676D21.jpeg

Roma in ‘a winter... bellissimo!
 
Last edited:

cal3713

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
119
102
45
42
youtube.com
Yes, all of the seven RLRs will have Rhapsody.Audio products on display and for customer demonstrations. The actual purchases will go through Rhapsody in NY.
Where are the other rooms Bob?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhapsody

Phantom-Audio

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2017
26
16
85
Jakarta
www.phantom-audio.com
This is why when someone says only Conical and all others will add colouration I just shut up and can't be bothered to respond. Clearly, the poster has no clue but endless debates get nowhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rhapsody

Rhapsody

VIP/Donor
Jan 16, 2013
1,809
2,271
815
NYC
Where are the other rooms Bob?
Rhapsody.Audio- Listening Rooms (RLRs)

Rhapsody.Audio would like to announce that within the next 3-4 months there will be multiple new locations where several of the product lines that Rhapsody.Audio represents will be available to audition via Rhapsody.Audio Listening Rooms (RLRs).

Initially, the RLR’s will have the products available for demonstration mentioned below. Upon opening, the DFW RLR will have a very similar product offering as that available at Rhapsody.Audio in Manhattan.

Over time, all locations will be expanding their portfolio to a comparable scale as that of NYC/DFW.

The RLRs will be available to host auditions by appointment. All product ordering and delivery logistics will be processed and supported from the Rhapsody.Audio NYC location.

Product assistance and installation will be supported by Rhapsody.Audio NYC along with the RLRs depending on customer location.

The RLR locations are:

Portland - Rhapsody.Audio RLR

Products available to audition (coming soon)

-Pilium

-Alsyvox

-Diesis

-Bayz Audio


Dallas/Fort Worth Rhapsody.Audio RLR

Products available to audition:

-Alsyvox

-Diesis

-Bayz Audio

-Pilium

-VYGER

-Kondo

-Taiko Audio

-VYDA

West Palm Beach & Miami (2 Florida locations) Rhapsody.Audio RLRs

West Palm Beach will open initially. Miami will follow when the RLR is ready to host customers.

Products available to audition (initially):

-Alsyvox

-Pilium

-Aurender

-TelluriumQ

Chicago, IL Rhapsody.Audio RLR

Products available to audition (initially):

-Alsyvox

-Pilium

-Aurender

-TelluriumQ

Long Island, NY Rhapsody.Audio RLR

-Kondo

-Alsyvox
 
  • Like
Reactions: cal3713

manisandher

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2011
217
183
450
www.the2ndtier.com
... in fact manis Anima is digital only room corrected

I'll be trying a digital 4-way crossover (4-way multi-amping with an extra pair of bass drivers) and digital room correction with my Animas in the next few weeks. I'm aiming to high-pass the Anima bass horn at around 70Hz, so it'll become a mid-bass horn effectively - the extra bass drivers will handle things below 70Hz and will be digitally corrected to be flat down to 20Hz. The extra bass drivers will be driven hard and might be distorting somewhat (who cares?), but the Anima's from the mid-bass up should be nice and clean, as they won't be driven at all hard.

And, I find the thought of having the amps connected directly to the drivers with no passive crossovers in the path very compelling. I'm hoping for a sharp uptake in dynamics (not that they're currently lacking).

No idea how things will work out, but thought I'd give it a go. It'll all be reversible if it's a total disaster :). But I have a feeling it'll work out well...

Otherwise, even totally stock, I really like the Animas. They're my end-game speakers.

Mani.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bonzo75

cal3713

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
119
102
45
42
youtube.com
I'll be trying a digital 4-way crossover (4-way multi-amping with an extra pair of bass drivers) and digital room correction with my Animas in the next few weeks. I'm aiming to high-pass the Anima bass horn at around 70Hz, so it'll become a mid-bass horn effectively - the extra bass drivers will handle things below 70Hz and will be digitally corrected to be flat down to 20Hz. The extra bass drivers will be driven hard and might be distorting somewhat (who cares?), but the Anima's from the mid-bass up should be nice and clean, as they won't be driven at all hard.

And, I find the thought of having the amps connected directly to the drivers with no passive crossovers in the path very compelling. I'm hoping for a sharp uptake in dynamics (not that they're currently lacking).

No idea how things will work out, but thought I'd give it a go. It'll all be reversible if it's a total disaster :). But I have a feeling it'll work out well...

Otherwise, even totally stock, I really like the Animas. They're my end-game speakers.

Mani.
Curious how that works out... please do post about your experience.
 

manisandher

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2011
217
183
450
www.the2ndtier.com
Sure. I'll start a new thread to stop this one getting corrupted.

Incidentally, I have a pair of genuine F4 monos in my office system, which I love :).

F4 monos.jpg

Mani.
 

cal3713

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2020
119
102
45
42
youtube.com
Sure. I'll start a new thread to stop this one getting corrupted.

Incidentally, I have a pair of genuine F4 monos in my office system, which I love :).

View attachment 77979

Mani.
The F4s are so great. Fortunately I wasn't able to find a commercial unit, which led me to build my own "special edition" versions (and launched all my diy interests/activities).

And sorry if I missed it above, but what speakers are those?
 

manisandher

Well-Known Member
Feb 7, 2011
217
183
450
www.the2ndtier.com
And sorry if I missed it above, but what speakers are those?

They're the Tune Audio Marvel... the smaller sibling of the Tune Audio Anima, which I have in my main listening room. Nice speakers, but quite a few notches down from the Anima in sound, even driven by the F4 monos.

Mani.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cal3713

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing