SOtM sNH-10G Network Switches x2 : The NEW KING of USB/Network Gadget Setup

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
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So would this be the shopping list?
2 x SoTM Switches
1 x Mutec Ref 10
3 x LPSs
3 x Power cables
2 x Clock cables
3 x DC cables
2 x Ethernet cables
6 x Rack shelves


Well, it goes something like this.

I have both Sotm's with Sclk-ex and additional clock outputs which are feeding my incoming fibre box/modem and router.

Sadly, if the internet is down somehow and requires a reset, none of my family members will be able to get it working!

Also, the internet technicians will get a shock of their lives and will also not know what to do, let alone seeing the configuration of networking equipment just for the internet.

I unfortunately have no floor space for more racks or shelves, so they go on to stacked.

The whole setup from 1-5 does not provide wifi to any ipad, mobile phone, security cameras, digital TV. There's another setup isolated at best i could, from the router via multiple switches, fibre converters and lastly to Wifi router for "non" music related duties.
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
Do consider after settingup thevaudio network to:

Non audio network, from the router

1 x ethernet filter( Acoustic reviver lan filter)
1 x TCXO reclocked switch
2 x fibre media converter (1st one also TCXO reclocked)
1 x netgear S8000 gaming swich
1 x hp reclcoked switch
2 x LPSs (3A rated)
2 x Power cables (free ones)
6 x DC cables (3 for each lps connected together)
3 x Ethernet cables (free ones) but i also use my Vertere hb lan and another silver one)
1 X HFC mc0.5 filter
1 pr fibre SC cable
1 x 1uf Jensen pure copper cap connected to a unused
12v power brick.
1 x Asus AC68, leds off

These have no connection for audio streaming, just for wifi to whole house.

Every item was selected and tested to have impact positively to the sound, that is why it stayed and accumulated to the amount of equipment used just for wifi.

I believe these have reduced noise further affecting the whole system, power lines and rfi, emi noise in the whole house.

Reclocked switches etc, also contributed to less noise interference affecting the main Audio network, thus resulting in improvement over just placing a normal switch where it is.

These were surplus from my beginnings into reclocked switch and fibre converters 5 years back.

What i am getting now, streaming any tune from Tidal sound like a hifi mastered recording, with clarity, details, depth, wide stageing,naturalness, bass slam all with zero harshness, glare or sibilance for ALL music played to date.

This was all along referenced to to cd played from a clocked via Esoteric G02, Cybershaft OP17, Quartzlock 10M and now Mutec Ref 10 op20 with previously DCS Pucinni and Esoteric K01 and K01x.

Tidal now does not lose or even sound better than playimg CD's.

I not longer have space for a cd transport on racks and had to finally let go of my Vinyl rig of a Kuzma Reference with Triplaner VII and a benz ebony and ASR phono to make for space.

I have not missed eithercd or vinyl since.
 
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ANDRESZ

Member
Oct 15, 2018
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Thx Justubes

I have ordered some OCC Copper Neotech DC coincidentally as well as FARAD which will feed two new FARAD PS. Mattijs is fantastic to deal with.

You are spot on re the clearer detailed sound of Silver over copper - this also applies to Home Theater where you get a sharper but less film like quality. This "trait" is easily seen on video - slightly less natural but a lot sharper.

I am reluctant to send the unit back to change to copper at this stage - I may buy a second SOTM that is the same config but with the copper. Then see which one I like and then send the other back for a rewire. Certainly Silver does a great job on percussion and depth but copper does weight and timbre better. I added my cisco (Audiophile one the Computer guys use) into the chain tonight as an experiment and surprised that this also increased the SQ and Video. The uplift from adding another switch is greater than the loss from more connections. PS and PC.

I had spent a huge amount of time tweaking the front end - which I thought was the server and then the dac. I am finding that there is significantly more to be had with starting from the Router to the server/streamer. The last time I had a profound lift was when I put the Metrum Adagio NOS dac in with a Shunyata SIGMA NR. I can only imagine how many people are swapping DACS etc...and neglecting the switch side.

I haven't put the stillpoints on the SOTM as a test as I don't think it would be a good match. Agree the recent Shunyata stable is great. I have the SOTM nearest the router. Have the LED off. The Sbooster Ultra is a nice match - will be replaced by the FARAD.

As you say, experimentation is the best way. I have learned to try things which you wouldn't ordinarily do - to discover happy accidents. I have a jungle of cables, equipment which is like a visit to a Thai main street.....

My loom is more complex pre streamer than post now. I think this is a relatively new area where we are just learning some really interesting things re streaming. The stream now sounds better than my NAGRA CD player which I haven't used for a long time. Streaming YouTube music, live concerts, music clips on the Home Theatre is an amazing experience. I use a NVIDIA Shield - modified proper DC and LPS. It has an Isoregen and Shunyata USB running into the DAC. (another config is running a WEISS USB/SPDIF converter into an Empirical Audio clock - and then BNC into the DAC).

What is interesting is that while You Tube material is not high res - the amount of detail at 48 is significant enough and plenty to flesh out a very convincing playback. I spend most of my time watching and listening - and that is a great way to judge how well the system is replaying what you are seeing.

Also find the Furutech NCF risers to be very effective. Have a few of these, highly recommended - the effect isn't subtle. The "head" of the riser sits on top of the Shield. The Nvidia has a really good processor and no fan. It benefits a lot from grand prix audio "feet" and a good shelf. It is astounding what can be coaxed out of it. Audioquest Diamond HDMI (powered silver) is the best cable I have found for video/ambiance.
 
Last edited:

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
It's nice to meet another OCD:)

You are on the right track
.

And yes, i am finding network make incrementally bigger first real improvement. The it rear it's ugly and anything you do from the streamer on can then become also shockingly profound. It seems to me that way from what i experienced, but not in the reverse order.

A tip, if you can open the unit or your dealer do it. The cables inside the Sotm can pretty much be made by Sotm and sent over, both silver and copper and plugged in and out.

I find it rather absurd to sent the unit back half way round the world just to have the cable changed!

The connectors used are small one used typically in electronics, there are hundreds of different ones, but look like those rechargeable pack batteries used in home cordless phone last time.

The silver neotech may just be revealing some brightness from elsewhere, so be careful not to make judgement so soon.
 

ANDRESZ

Member
Oct 15, 2018
15
11
8
61
Yeah - it is OCD but no other way! Agree :p

I made great headway with PC, IC and SC cables but they really pale in comparison to the network end. Shockingly so.

Thanks for the tip - I was also thinking the same re wiring. There are high end audio techs here that could easily do it over a cup of coffee rather than ship re costs, time etc.... Agree with your thinking.

I do remember when I changed modems there was a slight brightness there so will swap back the old one to test. Hadn't thought of that. Great point. Will give the unit more time. I am tempted just to buy another SOTM with copper. ER is good but I really don't like the heat that thing puts out. The metal barrels on the Ethernet cables get really hot on the B side. I have ordered a copper heatsink -see how that goes. Thx
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
364
213
48
Do consider after settingup thevaudio network to:

Non audio network, from the router

1 x ethernet filter( Acoustic reviver lan filter)
1 x TCXO reclocked switch
2 x fibre media converter (1st one also TCXO reclocked)
1 x netgear S8000 gaming swich
1 x hp reclcoked switch
2 x LPSs (3A rated)
2 x Power cables (free ones)
6 x DC cables (3 for each lps connected together)
3 x Ethernet cables (free ones) but i also use my Vertere hb lan and another silver one)
1 X HFC mc0.5 filter
1 pr fibre SC cable
1 x 1uf Jensen pure copper cap connected to a unused
12v power brick.
1 x Asus AC68, leds off

These have no connection for audio streaming, just for wifi to whole house.

Every item was selected and tested to have impact positively to the sound, that is why it stayed and accumulated to the amount of equipment used just for wifi.

I believe these have reduced noise further affecting the whole system, power lines and rfi, emi noise in the whole house.

Reclocked switches etc, also contributed to less noise interference affecting the main Audio network, thus resulting in improvement over just placing a normal switch where it is.

These were surplus from my beginnings into reclocked switch and fibre converters 5 years back.

What i am getting now, streaming any tune from Tidal sound like a hifi mastered recording, with clarity, details, depth, wide stageing,naturalness, bass slam all with zero harshness, glare or sibilance for ALL music played to date.

This was all along referenced to to cd played from a clocked via Esoteric G02, Cybershaft OP17, Quartzlock 10M and now Mutec Ref 10 op20 with previously DCS Pucinni and Esoteric K01 and K01x.

Tidal now does not lose or even sound better than playimg CD's.

I not longer have space for a cd transport on racks and had to finally let go of my Vinyl rig of a Kuzma Reference with Triplaner VII and a benz ebony and ASR phono to make for space.

I have not missed eithercd or vinyl since.

This looks very interesting.
Could you please be so kind to write the scheme of your both network loops with everything
you listed ? Please also mark net cables brands and fibre.
I am very interested to follow your way of setting it .
I focused on the audio system that is already end game but never focused on network as much as you did.
I use EtherRegen and Startech MC and 80km sfp over fibre. that is all.
It looks I am missing a lot.
Thank you justubes !
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
12,815
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703
E. England
So, in a nutshell, the network PRIOR to the server/streamer/renderer is WAY more critical than fwd of this stage?

You'd even say this with a server as powerful and perfectionist as the Extreme?
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
364
213
48
So, in a nutshell, the network PRIOR to the server/streamer/renderer is WAY more critical than fwd of this stage?

You'd even say this with a server as powerful and perfectionist as the Extreme?

We will find out. So far it looks upstream metters much less than with other servers ,
but still it is significant when streaming .
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
The theory subscribed to is garbage in garbage out.

Where is the point of signal entering and coming from?

If one had a horrible sounding router, switch or fibre converters before any streamer or server. I cannot imagine how this streamer or even dac can be sounding good or making it sound good unless it was a very strongly coloured piece of gear.

I had tested a number of off the shelf switches back then and quickly appreciated how different they can sound once in the chain.

They all seemed to have some objective improvements brought, however some with greater detail and transparency, but sound more digital and lean compared to without it in the chain.

They were tested with only using linear supplies and audiophile branded lan cables.

They were then modified and reclocked.

All this before any audiophile switches were available.

Experiments lead to the conclusion that the front source signal mattered greatly despite many arguements that 1's and 0's are all the same and could not possibly have any effect sonically.

There was a long thread in the computer forums discussing networking which has grown exceedingly long to date.

This was also evidenced that the digital picture quality was also vastly improved adding switched and fiber converters in the chain.

I did not pay particular attention to this area but was told so by friends and there was overall consenses about the improvements these brought.

They all affected the picture quality no matter whether it was a cheap or expensive high end lcd tv used.

Could it be that these high end 4K lcd where immune to upstream networking improvements?

The answer was an absolute NO!

Is there a streamer or equipment downstream that will not be affected or deem any improvements upsteam less important?

Would you prefer to stay with a small car and put on expensive, big grippy tyres and say that you have the best performing vehicle.

I guess not.

Which comes first? There will always be those debating whether the chicken or egg came first.
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
Kris,

My audio side network looks like this, i do not have a diagram....

All power by linear supply- Paul Hynes SR5 x 2 units

1.incoming fibre point to a optical network box ( clocked by SOTM Sclk Ex, VH audio 75ohm coax.

2.Ubiquiti Edge router sfp clocked by Sotm Sclk Ex. using Sotm dbcl 50 ohm coax. Incoming lan cable to router, Wireworld Platinum with Acoustic revive lan filter

3.Sotm Switch with Sclk ex (fed by Mutec Ref 10 with Cybershaft 50 ohm clock cable. Incoming lan cable, Dalby Meda Carbon.

4.connection out from Sotm switch via Startech SFP fibre to 2nd Sotm switch.

5.Second Sotm Switch with Sclk ex. fed with Mutec Ref 10. Op20 using Acrolink DA6100 75ohm cable with the Startech SFP incoming fibre.

6.lan out from 2nd Sotm sclk ex switch using Acoustic revive lan filter with Dalby Meda Carbon lan cable.

7. From Dalby Meda Carbon to Aurender streamer.


This has been the development over the last 5 years and would call it *El Finito*

I have gone though many versions and brands of linear supplies along with different Asus, linksys routers, Cisco, netgear, tp link , Hp switches and various Media Fibre converters which one by one to the whole network equipment being modified with ocxo clocks before going to the Sotm switches which simplified and had less clutter.

The fully Ocxo modified network ( in the same configuration except having 2 switches before the Aurender) was also excellent sounding. The dc cables and power supplies was frightening and was a nightmare gettingbthe network running if any 1 item was down).

The total number of Ocxo modules used to then were a staggering 6 and yes, there were another staggering 6 linear supplies just to power the ocxo clocks.

There was an investment of substantial cost of the networking equipment used then which has been written off to reach where i am today.

The investment in networking exceed the cost of the streamer itself, but well worth it!

Changes or tweaks to any downstream equipment are so sensitive and greatly magnified, which would not have been without the current network setup.

Could i revert back to a simple stock network with a lan cable from router to streamer.

To be honest, i will have no interest any longer in listening to streaming if that was the case.
 
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Abyss Man

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
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Kris,

My audio side network looks like this, i do not have a diagram....

All power by linear supply- Paul Hynes SR5 x 2 units

1.incoming fibre point to a optical network box ( clocked by SOTM Sclk Ex, VH audio 75ohm coax.

2.Ubiquiti Edge router sfp clocked by Sotm Sclk Ex. using Sotm dbcl 50 ohm coax. Incoming lan cable to router, Wireworld Platinum with Acoustic revive lan filter

3.Sotm Switch with Sclk ex (fed by Mutec Ref 10 with Cybershaft 50 ohm clock cable. Incoming lan cable, Dalby Meda Carbon.

4.connection out from Sotm switch via Startech SFP fibre to 2nd Sotm switch.

5.Second Sotm Switch with Sclk ex. fed with Mutec Ref 10. Op20 using Acrolink DA6100 75ohm cable with the Startech SFP incoming fibre.

6.lan out from 2nd Sotm sclk ex switch using Acoustic revive lan filter with Dalby Meda Carbon lan cable.

7. From Dalby Meda Carbon to Aurender streamer.


This has been the development over the last 5 years and would call it *El Finito*

I have gone though many versions and brands of linear supplies along with different Asus, linksys routers, Cisco, netgear, tp link , Hp switches and various Media Fibre converters which one by one to the whole network equipment being modified with ocxo clocks before going to the Sotm switches which simplified and had less clutter.

The fully Ocxo modified network ( in the same configuration except having 2 switches before the Aurender) was also excellent sounding. The dc cables and power supplies was frightening and was a nightmare gettingbthe network running if any 1 item was down).

The total number of Ocxo modules used to then were a staggering 6 and yes, there were another staggering 6 linear supplies just to power the ocxo clocks.

There was an investment of substantial cost of the networking equipment used then which has been written off to reach where i am today.

The investment in networking exceed the cost of the streamer itself, but well worth it!

Changes or tweaks to any downstream equipment are so sensitive and greatly magnified, which would not have been without the current network setup.

Could i revert back to a simple stock network with a lan cable from router to streamer.

To be honest, i will have no interest any longer in listening to streaming if that was the case.
Hi Justubes,
Im am also soon getting a 2nd soTm switch, question, the 2 switches are connected via Optical right? Have u tried a Ethernet connection betweeen the 2? Was there any sonic difference? Thank you sir.
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
Hi Abyssman,


As for your question, It will be cost effective to use fibre between both units as a start using FS.com which are not expensive.

When you have time to test various very good quality ethernet cables and find a preference if your are inclined to venture to that extent.

I would recommend you test a Shunyata Sigma Lan cable or Vertere Lan cable, these would bring more musicality, richness and warmth as a plus point over fibre which will result in possibly cleaner presentation and maybe little more detailed depending on what you are looking for.

What you really want to achieve first to to start with a 10M clock for the first unit and a good linear power supply as the first line of defense from digital hash as a step by step process.

The naturalness brought by the 10M clocking imho, brings what even 2 Sotm switches with just the SclK Ex could not provide whether using Dalby ethernet cable or the Fibre,

As a side note, My tests with adding 2 Sotm Sck ex with 10M using a Dalby Meda Lan cable between both units i recollected was superior when they replaced the the 2nd OCXO Fibre converter and 2 OCXO clock netgear switches. This was in the configuration when the full network was still OCXO clocked (Optical box > Asus router > Fibre media converter X2 >Netgear switch > Netgear switch).

I am using the 2 units via fibre (6 meters apart, i require the distance) after simplification of my networking gadgets is still very good, but in that context with part of my old network used, it was better connecting the 2 Sotm units via Lan.
 

Abyss Man

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
225
160
50
Hi Abyssman,


As for your question, It will be cost effective to use fibre between both units as a start using FS.com which are not expensive.

When you have time to test various very good quality ethernet cables and find a preference if your are inclined to venture to that extent.

I would recommend you test a Shunyata Sigma Lan cable or Vertere Lan cable, these would bring more musicality, richness and warmth as a plus point over fibre which will result in possibly cleaner presentation and maybe little more detailed depending on what you are looking for.

What you really want to achieve first to to start with a 10M clock for the first unit and a good linear power supply as the first line of defense from digital hash as a step by step process.

The naturalness brought by the 10M clocking imho, brings what even 2 Sotm switches with just the SclK Ex could not provide whether using Dalby ethernet cable or the Fibre,

As a side note, My tests with adding 2 Sotm Sck ex with 10M using a Dalby Meda Lan cable between both units i recollected was superior when they replaced the the 2nd OCXO Fibre converter and 2 OCXO clock netgear switches. This was in the configuration when the full network was still OCXO clocked (Optical box > Asus router > Fibre media converter X2 >Netgear switch > Netgear switch).

I am using the 2 units via fibre (6 meters apart, i require the distance) after simplification of my networking gadgets is still very good, but in that context with part of my old network used, it was better connecting the 2 Sotm units via Lan.
Hi sir,
Thank you so much for the detailed insight. I'm curently using the trifecta with the full option soTm switch, all are clocked by soTm 10Mhz master clock as well. My PS is sps-500 using Tellurium Black PC and I find them really good. I might upgrade in the near future. Thinking of going either PH 4 or Farad 3. My ethernet cables are all soTm using the Cat 6 iso blocks. 4 in nos of the SoTm dcbl-Cat-7 ethernet cables. My USB cales are Tellurium Silver Diamond.

If as you suggested going Lan connection then I will go that route, but I will give the optical route a visit too as I want to hear the differences for my own experience sake since it isn't too much Moolah.

Once again thank you so much and Wishing you a Happy New, God bless.
 

jturbo

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2018
130
86
93
Lexington, KY
Well, it goes something like this.

I have both Sotm's with Sclk-ex and additional clock outputs which are feeding my incoming fibre box/modem and router.

Sadly, if the internet is down somehow and requires a reset, none of my family members will be able to get it working!

Also, the internet technicians will get a shock of their lives and will also not know what to do, let alone seeing the configuration of networking equipment just for the internet.

I unfortunately have no floor space for more racks or shelves, so they go on to stacked.

The whole setup from 1-5 does not provide wifi to any ipad, mobile phone, security cameras, digital TV. There's another setup isolated at best i could, from the router via multiple switches, fibre converters and lastly to Wifi router for "non" music related duties.

I havent seen modems and internet routers with external clock inputs. Did you modify those boxes to add the clock inputs ir choose models that had external clock inputs? Also, im assuming that those boxes are on lps as well?
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
You can check with a tech or communicate with Sotm if they can get it done for you along with the Sotm Sckl Ex configured to work with it.

Paul Pang Audio is also able to if they want to do it.
 

kswanson27

Active Member
Nov 22, 2018
195
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You can check with a tech or communicate with Sotm if they can get it done for you along with the Sotm Sckl Ex configured to work with it.

Paul Pang Audio is also able to if they want to do it.
I'm interested as well. I didn't quite understand your response to jturbo. Did you modify the modem and router to accept an external clock input or how did you achieve it?
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
Yes, most certainly they have to be modded. I go my tech friend to perform these.

While at it, i get the cheapo caps upgraded.

I also added exotic Duelund or vcap teflon cap which were again a huge improvements.
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
Paul pang audio used to have a model with external clock feed, bundled together with a linear power supply afik.
 

Kris

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2019
364
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48
Yes, most certainly they have to be modded. I go my tech friend to perform these.

While at it, i get the cheapo caps upgraded.

I also added exotic Duelund or vcap teflon cap which were again a huge improvements.

thank you justubes !
it looks we are many light years behind you. I am for sure.
I also did not get that you added the 10 mhz input to all your swiches / modems/ gears.
Do you need ocxo clock if you use external 10 mhz?
Could you please be so kind to share what exactly should be moded and what caps you added in swiches ?
internal pictures will be best probably .
Is there any place I can order the best version of „justubes” swich ?
Did you modified the caps for Delund or others in sotm swiches ?

I had few ocxo swiches from Paul Pang in the past but those are 100 mbs only.
 

justubes

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2015
177
90
233
Hi Kris,

Like the PPA switch, they likely require a 25M feed and not usable with 10M directly.

I had mine modded to accept a 25M feed and also had a 25M ocxo internally which has to be powered seperately with a 3.3v supply.

It was quite a complex procedure with the Asus router in which it needed both a 12v supply and 3.3v supply to work.

If the 3.3v supply is not connected, then a 25M external feed is needs for something like the Sclk ex. which was again fed by the 10M clock.

It is rather a complex setup but the best or only way.

I do have the Duelund cap modded in the Sotm, which i feel imparts a strong sonic flavour of what such a quality cap brings.

You will void your warranty doing that, but am more than certain the improvements are above a Evox cap mod.

I do like also very much the Vcap Cutf and the Jupiter Copper foil cap.

I run the streaming network also on 100mbps as sounds better and have zero issues with Tidal. Transferring files will be slower for sure.
 
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