makers should show a few output related specs
Voltage se and bal
Imp output at a min of 5 freq at given loads
the size of the cap I think
ralph can better explain what specs by documented testing should be
Ron’s New System
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
Voltage se and bal
Imp output at a min of 5 freq at given loads
the size of the cap I think
ralph can better explain what specs by documented testing should be
Tubes decay and documentation is available for testing specs to know
depending on its usage the aging process changes.
Rectifiers cook if on and connected to a psu circuit load switch or not.
tube filament is I think first to decay and depending on ac or dc filament voltage has a big difference
from what I had read each time we turn a tube on decay happens leaving them on in certain circumstances maybe better
lower filament voltage can help or hurt
Putting aside sound. tubes are designed for a specific purpose. We in audio many times use tubes not designed for audio.
by specs military grade tubes might last longer but still have an obvious lifespan
Lastly a new in the box tube needs to break in I think we all agree to this.
but then at what point does the sound decay enough to warrant new tubes ??
for me on larger output tubes I feel take the given hours specs of a maker and cut in half
I’m sure this is also raising eyebrows now.
I use tubes in a few headphone amps
headphones are like a microscope into the music
take tubes you have used about half or even a bit more then half and use new or even better a pre broke in pair as I do
It’s a good method of keeping your tubes best
I’m not saying an old tube don’t play music but im
Pretty sure it’s not like new anymore
depending on its usage the aging process changes.
Rectifiers cook if on and connected to a psu circuit load switch or not.
tube filament is I think first to decay and depending on ac or dc filament voltage has a big difference
from what I had read each time we turn a tube on decay happens leaving them on in certain circumstances maybe better
lower filament voltage can help or hurt
Putting aside sound. tubes are designed for a specific purpose. We in audio many times use tubes not designed for audio.
by specs military grade tubes might last longer but still have an obvious lifespan
Lastly a new in the box tube needs to break in I think we all agree to this.
but then at what point does the sound decay enough to warrant new tubes ??
for me on larger output tubes I feel take the given hours specs of a maker and cut in half
I’m sure this is also raising eyebrows now.
I use tubes in a few headphone amps
headphones are like a microscope into the music
take tubes you have used about half or even a bit more then half and use new or even better a pre broke in pair as I do
It’s a good method of keeping your tubes best
I’m not saying an old tube don’t play music but im
Pretty sure it’s not like new anymore
[please forgive my poor English]
To sum up what I've read in various threads and on the Dutch HiFi-advice website's Comments section, in which Aries Cerat's designer Stavros Danos himself replied and brought clarification:
- the manual says: "it is advised to avoid frequent on-off switching of the unit to preserve tube life" (even if there are three chokes in the Incito (S), one for each tube).
- nevertheless, "2-3 on-off power cycles a day" is not considered as frequent [says Stavros].
- for instance, turning on the gear before a listening session and off after the last listening session, is fine. (During the weekends, this could go up to 12 hours on, but it is still much better than 24/7.)
You can find DETAILS and Stavros Danos' answer here (on that site, each reply has its own link, so you have to start with my question first; then scroll down to Stavros' reply then to the Dutch AC distributor's reply afterwards; his name is Ron too):
https://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/re...helene-dac-and-incito-s-preamp/#comment-16104 //from this link, weirdly you cannot scroll upwards to the review itself, so...
...link to the review itself:
Aries Cerat Heléne DAC and Incito S preamp review, Hi-Fi Advice (Christiaan Punter) // this link opens at the beginning of the review, and gives access to the Comments too (scroll down).
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WE 300bs were designed for exceptionally long service as they were used in the first amplifiers integrated into the early transAtlantic phone cables strung across the ocean floor.
The tubes used in transatlantic applications did not go off and on ,and lastly were not in a room producing large amounts of acoustic energy. Lastly music unlike a phone has a constant change . If you used a stethoscope you can hear your music pretty good
Same on SS transistors .
I washed a video with chand of his very nice home and many audio rooms . In one part he has a set of quad panels on an el34 amp
He was told he never needed to change the tubes ever . There is some truth to this , but this leaves out the slow death of sound quality being heard.
With tubes being turned off and on as anyone does a few things happen no matter what it's designer used to hold off things
one is inrush current on not just the heater . But the plates too
a chemical blackening happens and this can be measured in tube conductance
Tube have magic in many ways , as do various non tube devices.
I think the glow of tubes adds to a almost endorphin release to some .
Myself included.
The 2A3 is one of my favorite tubes as well as el34 types
Both to my brain show speed but speed is a made up term but seems real to me .
Same on SS transistors .
I washed a video with chand of his very nice home and many audio rooms . In one part he has a set of quad panels on an el34 amp
He was told he never needed to change the tubes ever . There is some truth to this , but this leaves out the slow death of sound quality being heard.
With tubes being turned off and on as anyone does a few things happen no matter what it's designer used to hold off things
one is inrush current on not just the heater . But the plates too
a chemical blackening happens and this can be measured in tube conductance
Tube have magic in many ways , as do various non tube devices.
I think the glow of tubes adds to a almost endorphin release to some .
Myself included.
The 2A3 is one of my favorite tubes as well as el34 types
Both to my brain show speed but speed is a made up term but seems real to me .
+1
2a3/el34
Submarine tube for telephone cable
Whenever the signal fell below a certain strength, this tube was installed in the cable.
There is still an emergency connection between Europe and the USA today. Some tubes have reportedly been running for 60 years.
NOS 1950-60 Telefunken & Mullards & CBS Hytron with golden pins, , 12AT7, 12AU7 types, other input tubes, from my personal experience, used in the preamp and amp circuit.
I wasn’t cogitating upon WE 300B ! I was responding to …
“ left on continuously for a while (like 40-50 000 hours with some proper Telefunken, or Mullard NOS) “
Which I assumed to refer to 9 pin valves.
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Typical audiophile nonsense … the impact of a fuse!
“I don’t know why and I won’t try to find a reason but after swapping, all it takes is a couple of notes to hear that the Orange fuses make one heck of a difference. Yes, I’d almost be tempted to call it a day and night kind of difference! The impact is honestly as large as that of swapping a power cord.
What you notice instantly, is how the soundstage increases in size, becoming both wider and deeper, and secondly, how the sounds within it gain richness and finesse. With audio accessories that add richness, usually, you also lose some dynamics or attack but in this case, this does not seem to be the case, not in the midrange, at least. The overall resolution remains great – it does not seem to increase but neither does it diminish, but because the stage is imaged considerably more widely, the sounds within it are portrayed more in a free-floating manner and with gobs of surrounding air as opposed to the comparatively more clumped-together presentation of the standard fuses. Another notable change, and something that will make one gulp, is that the Orange fuses make standard fuses sound lean and tonally gray. It’s almost surreal.
However, once I got over the euphoria of the much luxurious sound, I noticed that the bass behavior had also changed. Even though the clarity and texturing in the midrange did not at all seem to be negatively impacted, and the bass actually seemed to have become meatier, there was now a bloom down below that made for a seductive and smooth feel but that also rounded off the transient behavior, making the sound feel arguably less urgent and rhythmic. For me, this was a deal-breaker and therefore, I reviewed the Aries Cerat components with standard fuses. But I know that I am quite specific in the way that I want my bass and imagine that there will be many for whom the benefits will greatly outweigh the downsides.”
I attended quite a few listening sessions with audiophiles were I witnessed these kinds of ridiculous tests - changes of fuses, of cables of all sorts - where listeners were convinced - and convinced each other - that the sound was immediately transformed - I rarely heard a difference… A waste of time.
The same reviewer is now a publicist for Taiko…what a coincidence!
Fro those interested in tube longevity:
https://www.effectrode.com/knowledg...igations-into-the-causes-of-loss-of-emission/
Forecasting tube longevity was a challenging subject after World War II - tube stocks for telegraphy repeaters were low and they should be used just to replace tubes with an imminent failure, not in systematic preventive maintenance.
https://www.effectrode.com/knowledg...igations-into-the-causes-of-loss-of-emission/
Forecasting tube longevity was a challenging subject after World War II - tube stocks for telegraphy repeaters were low and they should be used just to replace tubes with an imminent failure, not in systematic preventive maintenance.
Valvo has a color-coded yellow series (long-distance tube for communication transmission) supposedly min. 20,000 hours warranty)
You probably won't believe what kind of tubes you find in old tube radios that still work
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Unfortunately most radios used the specific 100mA filament versions of the tubes, meant to be connected in series that are not used in the high-end, although some people replace ECC88's with PCC88's.
As far as I remember the old Tektronix tube oscilloscopes were a great source for the precious premium ECC88s/6922s.
I
I leave mine on sometimes for a week straight or more…tubes sound the same and are dead quiet.
I'm hardly a person to defend a commercial audio reviewer, however Christiaan Punter has been a very respected reviewer, if you ever read his reviews, he is not a glorify-er "equipment whore" (pardon my French sic) like many others in his field, and is a straight shooter. I ve gotten plenty of useful information about components from his very thorough reviews, and he even has replied to my direct inquires&comments with very helpful and critical info about the component in question. So, I highly doubt his other job with Taiko has had much of an impact on his critical faculties as a hi-fi reviewer. Of course, this is in mine a very non humble opinion
I have friends with quite good listening skills that swear by the fuse swaps. I haven’t gone down that road because on piece of gear has several fuses and the cost gets prohibitive.
i do not doubt his honesty. There are two possible explanation for this: either audiophiles imagine things or the equipment they test is so bad that some ridiculous tweaks they test alter ( sometimes randomly) the performance. I have witnessed the first many times. Some guy shows up at an audiophile gathering, swaps a cable, and him and his pals are convinced that the sound is transformed while in fact nothing has changed. It is funny to observe…I'm hardly a person to defend a commercial audio reviewer, however Christiaan Punter has been a very respected reviewer, if you ever read his reviews, he is not a glorify-er "equipment whore" (pardon my French sic) like many others in his field, and is a straight shooter. I ve gotten plenty of useful information about components from his very thorough reviews, and he even has replied to my direct inquires&comments with very helpful and critical info about the component in question. So, I highly doubt his other job with Taiko has had much of an impact on his critical faculties as a hi-fi reviewer. Of course, this is in mine a very non humble opinion
Yes, events like that place, and despite sometimes being ridiculous, they bring a degree of fun , entertainment and avant-garde thinking into our hobby . Can you imagine all audiophiles being like some folks on the audio science review site?! Some of the "crazy" things even do make quite an notable, positive difference. Physics is a vast and largely mysterious field, who knows what&how can affect circuits or acoustics, unless we try.
Lets hope the moderator won't throw us out of here for the off topic though
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my friend commonly replaces most fuses with thermal couplers for critical gear. i always hear a positive difference. he realizes it's not warranty compatible.
i dabbled with swapping fuses back in the day and most times i did hear better. but sometimes those spendy new fuses had a very short life span. so i stopped going down that road. OTOH there are a few in my system now for over 10 years. my dart pre uses batteries (fuse on the charger box only), and the dart amps use thermal couplers.
Physics is actually a science.
Magic is not a science.
We might be able twist Alchemy into being the grandfather of modern nuclear physics, however in terms of electronics Maxwell sort of removed a lot of mystery from the ‘equation’.
Yes, but physics does not tell you that a fuse can't affect the sound quality of high-end equipment.
But IMO it can be studied scientifically.
I don't see how, and I consider myself an open minded person!
In terms of electronics the Maxwell equations show us that current real high-end electronics is a lot more than just Ohm's law and common sense.
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