Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

[Zeotrope]

Japanese Western field coil replica was priced very favorably.
The shop owner recommend me to get the replica and then find original Western midrange and bass field coil drivers in due course.
He mentioned to me that power supply, bass box and treble horn of Japanese replica could be used for original Western drivers.
I could not make up mind this time.
But I will be back to Seoul April next year to see my newborn twin granddaughter.
Then I try to find best option with advice of Mr Chung of Silbatone.

Hi Thomas,

Can you share more about what you are trying to achieve? When I was designing my vintage-modern horns (RCA 1443, Supravox, Fostex), I spoke to Mr Chung at Sibaltone when I was considering WE (original and replicas). To be honest, while a nice guy, I was disappointed with the amount of information he had (or was willing to share). The truth is, I suspect, that the WE stuff just doesn’t sound that great. There is a big following, for sure; but it’s not because of sound quality.

The GIP replica drivers are extremely expensive and they won’t even give you frequency response charts. You’re expected to buy ”blind”! The GOTO stuff is not nearly in the same league, which is why it’s less expensive. I was disappointed that none of these companies have any data to help you with integration.

You would be much better off with the RCA 1428/1443 midrange, what is considered by many to be the finest midrange ever made. The RCA was designed to outperform the WE, and they succeeded. The RCA 1428 on a conical wood horn cannot be beat. There is none of the coloration you get with most horns, and you have an essentially flat response from ~600-~10000. I can help you if you want to go this route…

While WE drivers have a ‘romantic’ sound, they don’t stand up to the best modern drivers. The RCA does, I do not believe it has been bettered. I compared the midrange to Wilson XVX and the RCA was better.

 

[thomask]

Hi Thomas,

Can you share more about what you are trying to achieve? When I was designing my vintage-modern horns (RCA 1443, Supravox, Fostex), I spoke to Mr Chung at Sibaltone when I was considering WE (original and replicas). To be honest, while a nice guy, I was disappointed with the amount of information he had (or was willing to share). The truth is, I suspect, that the WE stuff just doesn’t sound that great. There is a big following, for sure; but it’s not because of sound quality.

The GIP replica drivers are extremely expensive and they won’t even give you frequency response charts. You’re expected to buy ”blind”! The GOTO stuff is not nearly in the same league, which is why it’s less expensive. I was disappointed that none of these companies have any data to help you with integration.

You would be much better off with the RCA 1428/1443 midrange, what is considered by many to be the finest midrange ever made. The RCA was designed to outperform the WE, and they succeeded. The RCA 1428 on a conical wood horn cannot be beat. There is none of the coloration you get with most horns, and you have an essentially flat response from ~600-~10000. I can help you if you want to go this route…

While WE drivers have a ‘romantic’ sound, they don’t stand up to the best modern drivers. The RCA does, I do not believe it has been bettered. I compared the midrange to Wilson XVX and the RCA was better.

Thanks for your offer,

I heard goof opinion about RCA 1429, but I will rely on my ears.

Audio is subjective hobby, measurement helps but not critical.

I also agree with that GIP is overpriced.

Since my current mix of vintage and modern system sounds fine to me, I am not in a hurry.

I will take time and find option available,.

I will not buy blind.

 

[Zeotrope]

If you build yourself there is a leap of faith required, as it’s impossible to hear it beforehand.
Personally, I find the WE horns too colored, and while I agree that measurements are not the most important (my DartZeel pre doesn’t measure all that well), measurements are important as a starting point. The WE drivers have “interesting” frequency response characteristics!
I can certainly see the appeal, but I always aimed for my vintage system to perform at least at the same level as a modern speaker (at the same price point).

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Thomas,

Are those Scaenas?

 

[thomask]

Hi Thomas,

Are those Scaenas?

75 hz and down tanderm of pair Rel 31 and Sceana 18 inch subwoofers.

From 75hz and 290 hz, Altec A7 baaahorn

From 290hz up, Sceana main tower.

 

[thomask]

If you build yourself there is a leap of faith required, as it’s impossible to hear it beforehand.
Personally, I find the WE horns too colored, and while I agree that measurements are not the most important (my DartZeel pre doesn’t measure all that well), measurements are important as a starting point. The WE drivers have “interesting” frequency response characteristics!
I can certainly see the appeal, but I always aimed for my vintage system to perform at least at the same level as a modern speaker (at the same price point).

Every horn had coloration.

It is up to one's taste to enjoy that or not.

I will keep my modrn system as main on the second floor.

Rather than adoptmg fiull Westerm field coil system, it is more likely that I will take modern or replcia filed coils as second system on the third loor.



But If I find Western Electric full system in good conditon, then I may jump at it after thoruogh listening.

No blind buy!

 

[Ron Resnick]

75 hz and down tanderm of pair Rel 31 and Sceana 18 inch subwoofers.

From 75hz and 290 hz, Altec A7 baaahorn

From 290hz up, Sceana main tower.

Very interesting!

From what I have heard from a friend's Pipedreams system and from a Scaena system at AXPONA, I feel that it is a big shame that Scaena kind of fell off the radar. I think I would prefer it to lots of cone speakers we talk about often.

 

[thomask]

Very interesting!

From what I have heard from a friend's Pipedreams system and from a Scaena system at AXPONA, I feel that it is a big shame that Scaena kind of fell off the radar. I think I would prefer it to lots of cone speakers we talk about often.

The most salient feature of Scaena is realistic deep and wide soundstage with no distiortion using many units.

It is also efficient to make it suitable for medium power tbue amp.

The drawback is slightly limited midbass and deep bass dynamics which I supllemented using Altec basshorn and Rel 31 subwoofers.

 

[Zeotrope]

Every horn had soloration.

Oh no, not at all! If you have only heard horns with coloration, you have not heard great horns! It’s like never having incredible wine - you are missing out!

Conical horns typically have no coloration. Both Rene LaFlamme (one of the top guys at Nagra and head of 2xHD label) and Fabio (head of Alma Audio) both said my horns were the first they heard that have no coloration.

I really encourage you to listen to some proper horns. “Proper” usually means straight sided, conical. A for Ara *may* fit in this category, OMA, among others.
I agree with you that WE horns are definitely colored. If you like that, then great; but they are not properly reproducing the source. They are also impossible to time align (unless you do so digitally), and they need multiple drivers because they are not full range.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Wow , lovely looking build , but that top unit is not a horn but a wave guide ..!



Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

Every horn had soloration.

It is up to one's taste to enjoy that or not.

I will keep my modrn system as main on the second floor.

Rather than adoptmg fiull Westerm field coil system, it is more likely that I will take modern or replcia filed coils as second system on the third loor.

View attachment 122326

But If I find Western Electric full system in good conditon, then I may jump at it after thoruogh listening.

No blind buy!

Every loudspeaker has some coloration of course some much more than others, so do totally agree , most horns have an obvious coloration and a type of sound, really good ones much less so and can be very good .


Regards

 

[Zeotrope]

Wow , lovely looking build , but that top unit is not a horn but a wave guide ..!



Regards

Top unit is 100% a horn. Bill Woods conical.
A wave guide has the same surface area between the diaphragm and horn throat. A horn has a smaller horn throat than the diaphragm.
The RCA 1443/1528 have a massive <5” diaphragm and a ~1” throat, so a horn must be installed.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Top unit is 100% a horn. Bill Woods conical.
A wave guide has the same surface area between the diaphragm and horn throat. A horn has a smaller horn throat than the diaphragm.
The RCA 1443/1528 have a massive <5” diaphragm and a ~1” throat, so a horn must be installed.

Ohhh ok so there is compression and expansion taking place thru that flare , what is the sensitivity ..?

 

[Zeotrope]

Ohhh ok so there is compression and expansion taking place thru that flare , what is the sensitivity ..?

It’s very high. Probably 107dB or thereabouts.

 

[thomask]

How about the sound of Altec A5 in modern bakery?

You can go to 5 minute of video directly.

 

[thomask]

How about sound from 8 inch German vintage field coil with DIY open baffle?

It is much easier to repair vintage audio in Korea where labor cost is more reasonable like 100-150$ / hour.

 

[DasguteOhr]

How about sound from 8 inch German vintage field coil with DIY open baffle?

It is much easier to repair vintage audio in Korea where labor cost is more reasonable like 100-150$ / hour.

Happy new year!
You don't need old fieldcoil. search for a Schulz Th 315 coax one of best sounding driver.
in east germany (GDR)used to test the accuracy of microphone responce.that in open baffle gorgeous. Good luck for hunt.
Use headphones

 

[thomask]

There are many vintage audio mania in Korea.

Also it is easier to repair the vintage audio there.

If I want to get nice vintage system, I may need to go back to Korea.

Or at least I will try to get good one in Korea.

 

[thomask]

Happy new year!
You don't need old fieldcoil. search for a Schulz Th 315 coax one of best sounding driver.
in east germany (GDR)used to test the accuracy of microphone responce.that in open baffle gorgeous. Good luck for hunt.
Use headphones

Happy new year!

I also consider modern or replica of vintage field coil units.

Thus I plan to attend Axpona 2024 which is the largest audio show in US.

 

[thomask]

In asia 2024 is called double dragon.

Twin granddaughter were born two hours ago in Korea.

Now I have one grandson and three granddaughter.