Is there a "World's Best Cartridge?"

microstrip

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Yes; each of us can claim the best. (It is not intellectually honest if each if us is claiming the best as some kind of objective truth, but, yes, we can claim it.)

An objective truth based in a single subjective opinion is meaningless. Subjective opinions must be analyzed statistically before they can claim such status.

And this is what suggests, if not proves, that the process is subjective.

The process is subjective because it is based on perceptual information about an incomplete and inaccurate reproduction of reality. Diversity is a consequence, not a proof of anything.
 
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TheMooN

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Not all Brad, you ought to read and understand what I wrote instead of exploding like this!

Since you brought up the subject what's your practical experience with these instruments? Having a girlfriend who played the violin doesn't qualify. :)

david
My My … The merest scratch beneath that micron veneer of pained conviviality and there we are, ones true nature. :confused:
 
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microstrip

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My My … The merest scratch beneath that micron veneer of pained conviviality and there we are, ones true nature. :confused:

When I listened to the Lindsay Quartet Peter Cropper was not playing a Stradivarius, but here it goes : From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Cropper


A Broken Stradivarius


One of the greatest ambitions of any violinist is to play a Stradivarius. Meticulously handcrafted by Antonio Stradivari these very rare violins produce an unrivalled sound. So you can imagine the excitement of acclaimed British violinist Peter Cropper when, in 1981 London’s Royal Academy of Music offered him a 258 year old Stradivarius for a series of concerts.
But then the unimaginable. As Peter entered the stage he tripped, landed on top of the violin and snapped the neck off. I can’t even begin to imagine how Peter Cropper felt at that moment. A priceless masterpiece destroyed!
Cropper was inconsolable. He took the violin to a master craftsman in the vain hope he might be able to repair it. And repair it he did. So perfect was the repair that the break was undetectable, and, more importantly, the sound was exquisite.
The Academy was most gracious and allowed him to continue using the Stradivarius. And so night after night, as Peter drew his bow across those string, Peter was reminded of the fact that what he once thought irreparably damaged had been fully restored by the hand of a Master craftsman.
 
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Don_Camillo

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Meticulously handcrafted by Antonio Stradivari these very rare violins produce an unrivalled sound.
Science knows that its not an unrivalled sound what makes the attraction of these old violins but rather that they intensionally were made to produce a louder tone. ;)
 

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Science knows that its not an unrivalled sound what makes the attraction of these old violins but rather that they intensionally were made to produce a louder tone. ;)

Audiophiles have an easier task - we just have to adjust level controls to match our preferences. :eek:

Science tells us that in sighted conditions unless we use instruments to set the sound level we will always favor our preferred unit when adjusting levels for comparisons. Fortunately we ignore it most of the time, the high-end is an hobby!
 

tima

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I think it is proper to say it’s “the” best for my system that I’ve heard. But even with this someone else might say they enjoyed another cart more on the very same system.

So in effect you're saying 'best cartridge' is defined by consensus after saying you would trust David's ears more than your own?

Is best a result of consensus?
Is best exclusive to but one?
 
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PeterA

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To get back on the subject of the thread, I think the Neumann is the best cartridge in the world. I do not own it, but I’ve heard it a number of times but only on one turntable and tonearm with different speakers. It has an uncanny balance between information retrieval and tonal beauty. Both are at a very high-level and the result is a natural sound that brought me closer to the experience of listening to live music than any other I have heard. Yes it is only my opinion, but there is a reason that people still talk about this cartridge and prefer it to the best cartridges of today.

To be clear, I am not simply saying this is my favorite cartridge. I am making the claim that it is the best cartridge in the world. Others might come close.

To the OP, why do you think the Grado Epoch is the best cartridge in the world?
 
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tima

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To get back on the subject of the thread, I think the Neumann is the best cartridge in the world. I do not own it, but I’ve heard it a number of times we’re only on one turntable and tonearm With different speakers. It has an uncanny balance between information retrieval and total beauty. Both are at a very high-level and the result is a natural sound that brought me closer to the experience of listening to live sound than any other I have heard. Yes it is only my opinion, but there is a reason that people still talk about this cartridge and prefer it to the best cartridges of today.

To be clear, I am not simply saying this is my favorite cartridge. I am making the claim that it is the best cartridge in the world. Others might come close.

To the OP, why do you think the Grado Epoch is the best cartridge in the world?

Well, that's two.
 

Audire

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So in effect you're saying 'best cartridge' is defined by consensus after saying you would trust David's ears more than your own?

Is best a result of consensus?
Is best exclusive to but one?

I do trust David’s ears and knowledge to get me (or anyone else) on the right pathway to locating a proper cart. But ultimately when it comes to my favorite it’s at least a consensus of one - me. Subjectively is part of being an audiophile.

Put another way just because a David says this is “the best” cart doesn’t necessarily mean I’ll purchase it and make the same proclamation. But I may say this sounds like the best cart for my system that I’ve heard, then again I may disagree and use something else. But if I do find something else, it will probably be in the same ball park of sound as the one David suggested in the first place.
 
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Tango

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I made no nominations of the best Joe

I also did not make any nomination. Only said there is definitely the best cart out there to answer the subject of the thread. People dont agree no problemo and I dont want to hear so many shitty cartridges out there just to be saying I heard it all. It is predictable to hear the argument about subjectivity to variables. Like you said subjective opinions have value and they arent equal.
To get back on the subject of the thread, I think the Neumann is the best cartridge in the world. I do not own it, but I’ve heard it a number of times we’re only on one turntable and tonearm With different speakers. It has an uncanny balance between information retrieval and total beauty. Both are at a very high-level and the result is a natural sound that brought me closer to the experience of listening to live sound than any other I have heard. Yes it is only my opinion, but there is a reason that people still talk about this cartridge and prefer it to the best cartridges of today.

To be clear, I am not simply saying this is my favorite cartridge. I am making the claim that it is the best cartridge in the world. Others might come close.

To the OP, why do you think the Grado Epoch is the best cartridge in the world?
I am actually glad that @mglik has heard a cart that sounds so good to him....so good that he is confident enough to think it could be the best cartridge in the world. That experience of hearing something that set apart itself from the rest is important. That experience is hearing something better and not just different. And the ability to distinguish what is better and what is just different. Then he could challenge that cart with others that are viewed by many experienced audiophile as top of the list. Keep trying.

Peter. I think the question that is interesting to ask is "Have you heard a cart that sound so great you dare to say in this forum it is the best in the world?"
 

Solypsa

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As an aside:

Neumann as a company clearly had something special going on. Microphones? Legend. Cartridge? Same. Mastering lathes? This is something I have experience with. The parts are modest in appearance yet the results stand over time. I am glad they did what they did. I doubt it was easy...

Oh and these were all tools not luxury items. :)
 

PeterA

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I also did not make any nomination. Only said there is definitely the best cart out there to answer the subject of the thread. People dont agree no problemo and I dont want to hear so many shitty cartridges out there just to be saying I heard it all. It is predictable to hear the argument about subjectivity to variables. Like you said subjective opinions have value and they arent equal.

I am actually glad that @mglik has heard a cart that sounds so good to him....so good that he is confident enough to think it could be the best cartridge in the world. That experience of hearing something that set apart itself from the rest is important. That experience is hearing something better and not just different. And the ability to distinguish what is better and what is just different. Then he could challenge that cart with others that are viewed by many experienced audiophile as top of the list. Keep trying.

Peter. I think the question that is interesting to ask is "Have you heard a cart that sound so great you dare to say in this forum it is the best in the world?"

Great post Tang. I like your question in the last paragraph. Being able to answer that question requires the same degree of certainty that I relied on to start my natural sound thread. I actually named a target and described the approach to achieve it.

That degree of confidence only comes after one has been exposed to what is possible, recognizes it, and is able to understand it. It then becomes very easy to make decisions and discard what does not work.

This thread is getting to the heart of what this forum is all about. Recommended reading is the Beyond Turntables sub forum.
 
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Solypsa

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It then becomes very easy to make decisions and discard what does not work.
.
This is well known in the recording and mastering world ( even if achieved with different / lesser gear ).

Its very hard to know what to do when the sound is confused and messy. ;)
 
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Tango

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I think the Neumann is the best and I haven't even heard it.
:D:D:D:D Good humor.

Dude. You are not supposed to say what is best in the What's Best Forum.

Out of fairway a little. I think the best BBQ is Snow's BBQ in Texas but I also havent eaten it. They wont do international delivery. ddk bought me their trucker hat and tshirt though. Go check them out in NetFlix. You always remind me of food somehow.
 

PeterA

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DasguteOhr

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As an aside:

Neumann as a company clearly had something special going on. Microphones? Legend. Cartridge? Same. Mastering lathes? This is something I have experience with. The parts are modest in appearance yet the results stand over time. I am glad they did what they did. I doubt it was easy...

Oh and these were all tools not luxury items. :)
Yes no luxury good german processing .
you forget one of best turntable , did you ever heard a vms cutting machine as turntable. neumann-vms-80.png
at the beginning of 2001 you could buy it cheaply, it hardly sells lp. today the press plants are urgently looking for spare parts or used machines like the vms 80.
P.S don't forget the amazing active speakers exsample the O 420
 

kodomo

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Yes no luxury good german processing .
you forget one of best turntable , did you ever heard a vms cutting machine as turntable. View attachment 96934
at the beginning of 2001 you could buy it cheaply, it hardly sells lp. today the press plants are urgently looking for spare parts or used machines like the vms 80.
P.S don't forget the amazing active speakers exsample the O 420
I have been designing 2ch. listening and studio control rooms for more than 12 years so I had the chance to measure a lot of different setups (back at it more nowadays as I sold my other business). The Neumann KH-120 is one of the best I have measured in regards to FR response both on and off axis from about 60 hz which is very important in mixing environment. They cost less than what people here (including me) would comfortably spend on their power receptacles! Their KH-310 (the bigger three way brother) is supposed to be better but I have not had the chance to hear and measure it yet. So, one way or another, Neumann is still at it, and carries its reputation justly in pro audio world.

ps. KH-420 will most probably be a legend in the future :)
 
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DasguteOhr

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If you had chance hear that setup do it , the newer series kh (0)420 with active sub kh870 have more organic sound.
Of course can be legend,its for me one the best active speaker .
Older 400/410 series sound more steril good for mixing not for home my opion. product_detail_x2_desktop_KH-420-on-a-KH-870-subwoofer-1_Neumann_M.png

P.S its not pretty design ,form follows function
 

Don_Camillo

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I think the Neumann is the best and I haven't even heard it.
Are you talking about the siberian copy


or about the originally between 1962 and 1966 made Neumann DST-62 or one of the 80s copies made in Japan and sold under the name Lumiere?
 

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