Is there a "World's Best Cartridge?"

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
2,352
2,510
645
Germany
no wonder the Neumann dst sounds so good, it is the counterpart to the neumann vst cutting head. so you hear it as it was cut.
Lumiere carts 're neumanns too;)
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
no wonder the Neumann dst sounds so good, it is the counterpart to the neumann vst cutting head. so you hear it as it was cut.
Lumiere carts 're neumanns too;)
Lumieres are jokes, they’re not even wired in phase most of the time because the guy can’t keep track of his windings. They break after a short little while and then try to get service from the guy who made them. There were a couple of nice sounding samples in the hands of journalists going around but nothing like the Neumann they were supposedly emulating and then they were hyped up. Sadly the audio media is even more clueless than some of their consumers! If you’re going to pay thousands for a cartridge make sure you know who’s standing behind it, I learnt this lesson the hard way.

david
 
  • Like
Reactions: tima and DasguteOhr

DasguteOhr

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2013
2,352
2,510
645
Germany
Lumieres are jokes, they’re not even wired in phase most of the time because the guy can’t keep track of his windings. They break after a short little while and then try to get service from the guy who made them. There were a couple of nice sounding samples in the hands of journalists going around but nothing like the Neumann they were supposedly emulating and then they were hyped up. Sadly the audio media is even more clueless than some of their consumers! If you’re going to pay thousands for a cartridge make sure you know who’s standing behind it, I learnt this lesson the hard way.

david
Ok, i have only one heard it was really good in a schlumberger turntable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ddk

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
432
99
258
Coming to what OP says, and digested with other things I have picked up in my humble years.
1. Certain carts emphasise things that you like more - hence subjective
2. My own hierarchy is: turntable- then arm - phono stage - then cartridge/arm cable
3. A change of cart may not be optimised at that level and will require a whole load of other changes for optimisation ie my FR64s sounds better (to my ears) with a Nordost Tyr cable than a Cardas Golden Reference when using a Shelter cartridge. On my Moerch DP6 the Cardas is different but strong in other ways.
I don’t want to cop out here, but at that level it’s really about subjective choice and sound emphasis.
If it were ‘best’ it ought to be based on value and diminishing returns past a point
I hasten to add I am no expert and am just joining the discussion
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Many sound aspects canbe subjective and I enjoy your pleasant tease. :) But if you talk realism I believe everyone is on the same ground. My wife my mother my secretary can tell which sounds closer real. You cannot escape telling which one has greater realism a or b even if you have old ears. So keep on hunting. The best is still out there.

You know what sounds more real to you with a particular recording in particular conditions, and many times people disagree on which of them sounds more real. So, unless we have a dogmatic view of stereo, a persuasive mentor or a just a wish to stop we will always keep hunting. Some of us know and accept that considering the limitations of sound reproduction, at best we favor our preferred view of real - that for some of us equates our preference - others refer to an "absolute best". Considering analog, my "best" is a genuine copy of a master tape.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loheswaran

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,467
11,363
4,410
You know what sounds more real to you with a particular recording in particular conditions, and many times people disagree on which of them sounds more real. So, unless we have a dogmatic view of stereo, a persuasive mentor or a just a wish to stop we will always keep hunting. Some of us know and accept that considering the limitations of sound reproduction, at best we favor our preferred view of real - that for some of us equates our preference - others refer to an "absolute best". Considering analog, my "best" is a genuine copy of a master tape.
agree that a 'good' master tape dub is as close to a recording reference as there is. but....what might that mean......exactly? i have a few 'known' provenance low-gen master tape dubs where my vinyl surpasses it to one degree or another that even that is not anything you can entirely count on. could be the age/condition of the master when it sourced the pressing, verses when it sourced the dub. or just a poor dub transfer.

some master dubs are just better than others. but a 'good' master tape is the standard......assuming a tape playback chain of sufficient quality. and that is how i judge my cartridges, as my tape playback gear has been a constant for 15 years now. what i see over the years is my vinyl has crept up on my tape here and there.
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
432
99
258
Without wanting to be controversial but not all reel to reels are equal. I remember speaking to the late great Tim de Pavaracini and he explained his works improved the machines in terms of noise and bandwidth…
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
Without wanting to be controversial but not all reel to reels are equal. I remember speaking to the late great Tim de Pavaracini and he explained his works improved the machines in terms of noise and bandwidth…
None of this is remotely contentious.

Best.
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
432
99
258
None of this is remotely contentious.

Best.
good - people can take things the wrong way.
My point being this search for mastertape can be fickle and drive you mad. That said I heard a really good reel to reel owned by meridian (yes the digital maestros) and it was breathtakingly good - so much better than all the digital and vinyl at the show I attended
 

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
good - people can take things the wrong way.
My point being this search for mastertape can be fickle and drive you mad. That said I heard a really good reel to reel owned by meridian (yes the digital maestros) and it was breathtakingly good - so much better than all the digital and vinyl at the show I attended

Yes I also collect “master tape” and can vouch for this experience directly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hxt1 and Loheswaran

Audiophile Bill

Well-Known Member
Mar 23, 2015
4,293
4,093
675
I am sure that’s gonna be like the dark side of the force - ie dragging me to temptation
I don’t have the space, money, time…
Haha. Is worth it. Less dark than the abyss of digital :eek:
 

Loheswaran

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2014
432
99
258
Getting back on topic I never knew about the Neumann DST - thanks to everyone.
By that I guess the Audio Technica Art1000 is the closest to that. I know Taj Moughaddan (apologise for mis-spelling) rates it very highly and I was very impressed (although hard to isolate in a 500k system with FM electrics)
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
So, unless we have a dogmatic view of stereo, a persuasive mentor or a just a wish to stop we will always keep hunting. Some of us know and accept that considering the limitations of sound reproduction, at best we favor our preferred view of real - that for some of us equates our preference - others refer to an "absolute best".
You can make your point by not sniping me how I come to my conclusion by persuasion of ddk and not hearing by myself Micro. Rest a little. No need to keep up your rating this way. Teasing friend is humorous and charmful. Sniping is not. I never thought your conclusion or your intuition came from your reading of Tool's but your own.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
You can make your point by not sniping me how I come to my conclusion by persuasion of ddk and not hearing by myself Micro. Rest a little. No need to keep up your rating this way. Teasing friend is humorous and charmful. Sniping is not. I never thought your conclusion or your intuition came from your reading of Tool's but your own.
He’s been at this stupid childish crap for a while now and he thinks he’s being clever! Not sure if he even has an original thought lots of HO’s and always quoting other people.

david

david
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
He’s been at this stupid childish crap for a while now and he thinks he’s being clever! Not sure if he even has an original thought lots of HO’s and always quoting other people.

david

david

No problem David. I got used to expected insults from you when you are unable to address different ways of living this hobby - I hope that some say you will understand that there are more guides and mentors in this hobby than just you. I respect people preferences, but always feel free to discuss to comment and discuss them. This thread was created by someone who wanted to comment the general idea of "the best" in this hobby, I posted my point of view.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Argonaut

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
You can make your point by not sniping me how I come to my conclusion by persuasion of ddk and not hearing by myself Micro. Rest a little. No need to keep up your rating this way. Teasing friend is humorous and charmful. Sniping is not. I never thought your conclusion or your intuition came from your reading of Tool's but your own.

You post just shows you misunderstood my perspective, sorry. And the name is Toole.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
No problem David. I got used to expected insults from you when you are unable to address different ways of living this hobby - I hope that some say you will understand that there are more guides and mentors in this hobby than just you. I respect people preferences, but always feel free to discuss to comment and discuss them. This thread was created by someone who wanted to comment the general idea of "the best" in this hobby, I posted my point of view.
Don’t make it about me Francisco it’s you and whatever your infatuation is with me. You’re not addressing anyone’s audio preference nor discussing cartridges just taking cheap shots or lecturing everyone, stop pretending and calling you out isn’t insulting you!

david
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeterA

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Don’t make it about me Francisco it’s you and whatever your infatuation is with me. You’re not addressing anyone’s audio preference nor discussing cartridges just taking cheap shots or lecturing everyone, stop pretending and calling you out isn’t insulting you!

david

What you consider cheap shots or lecturing is just stereo debate about preference and the thread main subject. It seems you are not able to follow it.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing