Introducing My System
- Thread starter Thundersnow
- Start date
Along the way, and in some ways agreeing with my buddy @Golum here (and you wrt horns), I think the only two speaker designs that are appealing to me are planars and horns, obviously for very different reasons. I have been a naysayer with regards to horns for many years, but I am coming around. It's the inherent energy of music combined with the SET appeal that you just can't overlook if you are being honest about your audiophile journey.
However, what REALLY changed my mind is the level of control I have in VOICING the speaker in exactly the way I want it with the active system. And that makes me confident I can get these excellently crafted horns with top notch drivers up to the level of my own sound standards.
I will not give up on the planars, time and again I keep coming back to them for their own specific strengths. But I also absolutely want to get the excitement of an orchestral recording I hear in your videos. I know that videos are often shun upon and dismissed, but I personally CANNOT deny what I've heard in several of these videos. And of course, the live examples I've heard all over the world.
So expect videos with both sets of speakers in the picture
I like some of the videos that Bonzo has posted of large scale, classical music. I also like some of Tim’s videos of large scale classical. Of course Tim’s are all of his own system so they are consistently excellent in my opinion.
I think Brad was referring to the 50 watt Wavacs, not the ribbon tweeters. The ribbon tweeters were in the 97 plus efficiency range, much lower power requirement and only a slice of the frequency range demand. The efficient tweets can be operated with the fleas.
I had the Apogee Stages with active crossovers and two stereo 50 watt Wavacs (one 50 watt channel per ribbon) which some gnarly audiophiles liked a lot.
That being said, my present midrange ribbons (Wisdom Audio, much higher efficiency than the old Apogees) used in the range of 300 to 7Khz sound great with a 45 tube amp, believe it or don't. I would guesstimate the raw efficiency of the Wisdom ribbons sans crossover at about 94 or 95 db for the frequency range (heavy lifting below 300 Hz carried by more powerful amps and subs, tweets with their own amplifier).
I was just curious if that Clarysis midrange could work with a 300b and an active crossover, but Thundersnow explained the limitations quite well.
Not sure how much faith i have in videos of speaker in room performance (not a lot)
But this sounds pretty good.
That's what i have ended up with.Along the way, and in some ways agreeing with my buddy @Golum here (and you wrt horns), I think the only two speaker designs that are appealing to me are planars and horns, obviously for very different reasons. I have been a naysayer with regards to horns for many years, but I am coming around. It's the inherent energy of music combined with the SET appeal that you just can't overlook if you are being honest about your audiophile journey.
However, what REALLY changed my mind is the level of control I have in VOICING the speaker in exactly the way I want it with the active system. And that makes me confident I can get these excellently crafted horns with top notch drivers up to the level of my own sound standards.
I will not give up on the planars, time and again I keep coming back to them for their own specific strengths. But I also absolutely want to get the excitement of an orchestral recording I hear in your videos. I know that videos are often shun upon and dismissed, but I personally CANNOT deny what I've heard in several of these videos. And of course, the live examples I've heard all over the world.
So expect videos with both sets of speakers in the picture
3 systems.
Large horns plus multi sub DBA plus DSP on subs only =Insane dynamics, excitement, clarity and speed with no horn coloration.
ESL Quads.= Not much else can achieve accurate, detailed and life like illusion of putting the performer in the room like Planar/Ribbon/ESL. Particularly with vocals and acoustic instruments.
Multi channel all horn,plus 6X subs for Atmos music and movies. Try not too laugh until you hear, well engineered/mixed for Atmos audio and selected music videos are an immersive enjoyable experience. Eric Clapton Lady on the balcony Atmos mix utilises LCR only for stage musicians, and ceiling and surround speakers to help recreate room ambience. No 2 channel system can achieve this fascimile of realism.
Also to name one of many Dominique Fils-Aime My Mind at Ease is stunning on Atmos.
The need to run only SET on horns is an often repeated inaccurate assumption IMO. :-0 Much like the old audiophile wisdom of active systems sounding artificial, or no benefit from in room measurements or treatment.
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No report, my colleagues and I are demoing at the show, as I said.Will we get a report this year , you still haven't presented last year report as promised, i did hear you are persona non grata in certain rooms
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Horns are quite better for large and small scale classical, jazz, vocals, and dual FLH also for rock (nothing comes remotely close in fact difference is biggest here). Just go check the video thread, there is one for each of those categories
I too was a fan of Apogees, analysis audio and electrostats for their midrange beauty, and apogee for the midbass. When Ron was focused on Martin Logan Neolith a decade ago i pushed him to Apogee’s and Analysis auditions because of ribbon vocals and bottom up density compared to electrostats. But i learned and moved on to horns as they are a few levels above
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Mundorf essentially created a 3-way speaker from the 2-way Clarisys Studio Plus and it's handling frequencies 5,000hz+. Clarisys uses one driver (the midrange tweeter driver) to handle both mids and highs. But, its off axis performance (especially) and generally performance above 5,000hz is not the best, plus you have to compensate for the rise in the presence region due to the transformer on the MRT.
The only effective way I could think of solving this was to add a natural tweeter driver that would complement the midrange tweeter well, and that's when I decided on the Mundorf AMT.
4. you need "Frankenstein"SpeakerThat's what i have ended up with.
3 systems.
Large horns plus multi sub DBA plus DSP on subs only =Insane dynamics, excitement, clarity and speed with no horn coloration.
ESL Quads.= Not much else can achieve accurate, detailed and life like illusion of putting the performer in the room like Planar/Ribbon/ESL. Particularly with vocals and acoustic instruments.
Multi channel all horn,plus 6X subs for Atmos music and movies. Try not too laugh until you hear, well engineered/mixed for Atmos audio and selected music videos are an immersive enjoyable experience. Eric Clapton Lady on the balcony Atmos mix utilises LCR only for stage musicians, and ceiling and surround speakers to help recreate room ambience. No 2 channel system can achieve this fascimile of realism.
Also to name one of many Dominique Fils-Aime My Mind at Ease is stunning on Atmos.
The need to run only SET on horns is an often repeated inaccurate assumption IMO. :-0 Much like the old audiophile wisdom of active systems sounding artificial, or no benefit from in room measurements or treatment.
Open baffle (dipole ) like planar with fast bass without housing resonance.
then you add coax driver in this speakersystem for the largest range of the overall frequency response as act like a point source. This ensures imaging precision.
It took me 8 years to understand this.
True,4. you need "Frankenstein"Speaker
Open baffle (dipole ) like planar with fast bass without housing resonance.
then you add coax driver in this speakersystem for the largest range of the overall frequency response as act like a point source. This ensures imaging precision.
It took me 8 years to understand this.
The Linkwitz dipole has always intrigued me.
I have Tannoy, so that covers coax image precision.
Headphones including Stax, that covers fast bass.
I also wouldn't mind a pair of Lowther field coils in a back horn (for all their faults i always enjoy these. (speed!)
An audio colleague designed and makes a multi entry horn with AE 15" for bass and separate dual 15" Tapped horn subs that i would also love.
Red Spade Audio PSE-144
Red Spade Audio provides acoustic room analysis and custom design services.
www.redspade.com.au
Sorry for thread hijack @Thundersnow.
PS. If the Clarisys speakers sound similar(haven't heard) to the Alsyvox(have heard) and slightly smoother i could imagine how good your room sounds!
If you're planning to build something like this yourself, we can chat about it via private message. My little tip is to use a Beyma Coax 15" that only needs a crossover for the horn tweeter ~ 4 kHz( 6db filter)True,
The Linkwitz dipole has always intrigued me.
I have Tannoy, so that covers coax image precision.
Headphones including Stax, that covers fast bass.
I also wouldn't mind a pair of Lowther field coils in a back horn (for all their faults i always enjoy these. (speed!)
An audio colleague designed and makes a multi entry horn with AE 15" for bass and separate dual 15" Tapped horn subs that i would also love.
Red Spade Audio PSE-144
Red Spade Audio provides acoustic room analysis and custom design services.www.redspade.com.au
Sorry for thread hijack @Thundersnow.
PS. If the Clarisys speakers sound similar(haven't heard) to the Alsyvox(have heard) and slightly smoother i could imagine how good your room sounds!
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Dipole15 - Open Baffle Applications - Acoustic Elegance woofer
Dipole15 woofers are designed for open baffle bass applications. Featuring the Full Copper Faraday Sleeve (FCFS) for incredibly accurate reproduction.
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Entirely not my impression. Really surprised you would hear that from the recording (meaning it wouldn't even occur to me), but again, that's why I post 'em.To be honest, I find the sound a little "dull", and based on this, I could see why Thundersnow would consider horns
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