How Good a CD Transport is Required to Sound Better than Streaming?

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There seems to be a fairly solid consensus (Lucasz Ficus, LL21, Al M, etc.) that CD playback or computer file playback, or perhaps both, sound better than streaming (assuming, of course, that all other variables, including the DAC, are held constant).

But I assume that one cannot assume that any device that can spin a CD necessarily will achieve better sound quality than will streaming.

So how good a CD transport does one need to achieve CD playback which sounds better than streaming? Where do the lines (rising sound quality of better transport and streaming sound quality) cross?
 
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i have owned a jays cd3 mk2 for many years now. i've had a handful of issues (original CDPro2 went out and sent unit back to singapore for them to swap new one in, no issues since). i'll be using it til either it or i die.

i'm sure the pro-ject transport is very capable too. i'll just offer that a good transport will get you sound that only the most ambitious, high $$ streamers can match, and then your software will be the limiting factor

re: streaming, there's so many areas where it goes bad. i had to sink $6k into my network (see my review on the Muon Pro on this site) to make streaming even remotely acceptable, but when i did that, i found a Wiim Pro (coax out using custom LPS to power it) was very capable for streaming, and sold my W20se to repurpose funds elsewhere.
 
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Interesting that Nagra claim that their streamer is superior to their CD-Player:


Once designers master the issues of noise and clocking associated with streaming we can expect such thing - curiously the issue is described in the article. But probably they will not be able to reproduce the artifacts associated to the particular CD mechanism used in their CDP - they will always sound different and some people will prefer its sound of the CD player.

My old Metronome Kalista combo system was somewhat euphonic, but on some recordings it sounded really fantastic!
 
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i have owned a jays cd3 mk2 for many years now. i've had a handful of issues (original CDPro2 went out and sent unit back to singapore for them to swap new one in, no issues since). i'll be using it til either it or i die.

i'm sure the pro-ject transport is very capable too. i'll just offer that a good transport will get you sound that only the most ambitious, high $$ streamers can match, and then your software will be the limiting factor

re: streaming, there's so many areas where it goes bad. i had to sink $6k into my network (see my review on the Muon Pro on this site) to make streaming even remotely acceptable, but when i did that, i found a Wiim Pro (coax out using custom LPS to power it) was very capable for streaming, and sold my W20se to repurpose funds elsewhere.
In MY SYSTEM the Project (with a Linear Tube Audio power supply and Tubulus DC cable) was much more musical than my Jays which yes broke and was repaired and then right after warranty expired died again. Project loves stillpoint record weight on top and good footers but it is ultimately in another league - IN MY SYSTEM.
 
In MY SYSTEM the Project (with a Linear Tube Audio power supply and Tubulus DC cable) was much more musical than my Jays which yes broke and was repaired and then right after warranty expired died again. Project loves stillpoint record weight on top and good footers but it is ultimately in another league - IN MY SYSTEM.
What part of your Jay's broke, was it the laser assembly/mechanism or something else?
 
What part of your Jay's broke, was it the laser assembly/mechanism or something else?
It would not po\lay or it would spin backwards. It seemed like the electronic control not the physical mechanism. The repair replaced the electronics. Just gave up after the second time.
 
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I want to post this here despite it being about a tweak because it raises the level of SQ from top loading transports to a degree that I think vaults CD transport well beyond any streaming system I have heard. It does so in qualitative ways- smooth dynamic changes, density, increaeses in emotional communication apparent lowered distortion, continuousness of soundstage even when it's not real ( multitracked pop) that go beyond the effects of a better amp or cable in my experience ( more on the level of a powerful room acoustics upgrade). It seems unlikely anyone reading the tweak section would happen to use a top loading CD transport.

And it is....the Stein carbon fiber CD mat. I found out the hard way- I had been using one for 2 years and of course came to take it for granted, until it got inadvertently disposed of in a misguided fit of house cleaning. I ordered one promptly but was sent a lower level version accidentally - it DID improve the sound a bit but no more than my old mats ( name escapes me). Got the correct Carbon mat after a week and WOW! It's a revelation.

So besides reccomending it I want to say that this discussion is incomplete sans the Stein mat- there is a LOT more in these discs than one might have guessed.
Just checking, you now think your streaming is way beyond your CD playback?
 
Regarding the Pro-Ject RS2T CD transport,

Stein carbon fiber CD mat.[...] Got the correct Carbon mat after a week and WOW! It's a revelation.
I guess it is the The Perfect Interface π [piː] carbon CD mat.
So, the clamp of the Pro-Ject RS2T CD transport has to be put on top of the mat. Despite of the latter's thickness (which is probably little), does the magnet clamp still fit good enough?
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As for the linear power supply (LPS) from Linear Tube Audio, this brand is not distributed in Europe. I emailed them at least a year ago to know if the has a distributor in Europe. No answer.
So, would I chose that solution (Pro-Ject RS2T CD transport + LPS), I would conservatively go for the dedicated Pro-Ject linear power supply developed for the transport (which can power a second Pro-Ject gear too).

Finally, you mention damping feet too, iirc. Can you provide additional information?

Thanks !
 
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Regarding the Pro-Ject RS2T CD transport,


I guess it is the The Perfect Interface π [piː] carbon CD mat.
So, the clamp of the Pro-Ject RS2T CD transport has to be put on top of the mat. Despite of the latter's thickness (which is probably little), does the magnet clamp still fit good enough?
Produkt_miniatur_pi_cd_carbon_signature_800x533.jpg



As for the linear power supply (LPS) from Linear Tube Audio, this brand is not distributed in Europe. I emailed them at least a year ago to know if the has a distributor in Europe. No answer.
So, would I chose that solution (Pro-Ject RS2T CD transport + LPS), I would conservatively go for the dedicated Pro-Ject linear power supply developed for the transport (which can power a second Pro-Ject gear too).

Finally, you mention damping feet too, iirc. Can you provide additional information?

Thanks !
LTA does direct sales so maybe you can order one? Years ago the LTA was reviewed as better than the project LPS but Project has upgraded their LPS since then so maybe it's as good or better. I use Carbide Audio feet topped with LellLoass Giant Steps- unfortuantely >$6,000 al in.
 
I recently started to rip my relatively extensive CD collection as I wanted to make use of the DAC in my Lumin X1 and, perhaps more significantly, I no longer have a CD player as I found that I just wasn't using it (YBA Genesis), and when I did the sound was noticeably worse than the Lumin. It also seemed a waste of money to buy a decent DAC and have the Lumin just sitting there, although I did consider selling that as well and putting the money towards a decent DAC like a Ideon Audio IΩN fed by a cheap streamer such as a Lumin U1 and a cheap CD transport.

I started off using EAC as online reviews were generally pretty glowing, lossless output to WAV. Mostly it sounded excellent but there were quite loud and irritating 'pops' and crackles affecting some CD rips. As an alternative, I then started using the Windows media player to rip to FLAC and this odd artefact is no more. Odd! It was a bit annoying as I've had to go back and repeat the process with the affected albums, but the results now are very decent - not perfect as there are very occasional dodgy rips, but almost there. I still prefer vinyl though (he says quietly in the digital sub-forum) , but can't deny how convenient digital is.

I may be doing things all wrong, but here is my current setup for digital, which I'm very happy with. I have all of my (lossless) audio files on a NAS having ripped them, and then via copper network cables to a network switch in my listening room, and from there an optical cable from the SFP port to SFP optical in on the Lumin. I'm using Plex software as a controller, and so far, so good! Overall, I think that this arrangement has spared me an expensive and probably unnecessary digital upgrade path - phew! :cool:

Open to any suggestions to improve the way that I'm doing things - so long as it doesn't involve buying a new DAC!
 
@Corinthian, that exactly mirrors my experience in ripping my 6000+ CD collection to my media server. I view streaming of my ripped CDs as purely a convenience. When I *really* want to listen to music, I play a CD on a good CD transport. It blows away any streaming source by a country mile. A case in point. I recently discovered the amazing Japanese marketed S-HMCDs, which are CDs made on a high density material with a lot of care taken in the transfer (using Rubidium atomic clocks etc.). I bought one of these accidentally during a concert at the Carmel Bach Festival. When I played it back on my CEC TL0 belt-driven CD transport -- the best CD transport I have heard in 40+ years -- I was blown away by how good it sounded. It was an old recording of Herbert von Karajan. The strings were lush, and it sounded like vinyl (without ticks and pops). I thought, hmm.., maybe it was a one-off. So, I ordered 10 more. Guess what? They all sound great. Now, I've ordered 35 more, including some classic jazz and pop music that always sounded awful on CDs. Here are a few of the ones I've heard and liked.

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@Corinthian, that exactly mirrors my experience in ripping my 6000+ CD collection to my media server. I view streaming of my ripped CDs as purely a convenience. When I *really* want to listen to music, I play a CD on a good CD transport. It blows away any streaming source by a country mile. A case in point. I recently discovered the amazing Japanese marketed S-HMCDs, which are CDs made on a high density material with a lot of care taken in the transfer (using Rubidium atomic clocks etc.). I bought one of these accidentally during a concert at the Carmel Bach Festival. When I played it back on my CEC TL0 belt-driven CD transport -- the best CD transport I have heard in 40+ years -- I was blown away by how good it sounded. It was an old recording of Herbert von Karajan. The strings were lush, and it sounded like vinyl (without ticks and pops). I thought, hmm.., maybe it was a one-off. So, I ordered 10 more. Guess what? They all sound great. Now, I've ordered 35 more, including some classic jazz and pop music that always sounded awful on CDs. Here are a few of the ones I've heard and liked.

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Are normal CDs now a disappointment?
 
Two days ago picked up my Pro-Ject Audio Systems CD Box RS2 T and Power Box RS Uni 4-way- Linear power supply to yet again include CD-playback in my setup. A short listen yesterday confirmed the sonical prowess I'd heard from a similar Pro-Ject CD-transport + LPSU in another system previously.
 

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@Corinthian, that exactly mirrors my experience in ripping my 6000+ CD collection to my media server. I view streaming of my ripped CDs as purely a convenience. When I *really* want to listen to music, I play a CD on a good CD transport. It blows away any streaming source by a country mile. A case in point. I recently discovered the amazing Japanese marketed S-HMCDs, which are CDs made on a high density material with a lot of care taken in the transfer (using Rubidium atomic clocks etc.). I bought one of these accidentally during a concert at the Carmel Bach Festival. When I played it back on my CEC TL0 belt-driven CD transport -- the best CD transport I have heard in 40+ years -- I was blown away by how good it sounded. It was an old recording of Herbert von Karajan. The strings were lush, and it sounded like vinyl (without ticks and pops). I thought, hmm.., maybe it was a one-off. So, I ordered 10 more. Guess what? They all sound great. Now, I've ordered 35 more, including some classic jazz and pop music that always sounded awful on CDs. Here are a few of the ones I've heard and liked.

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I've not even heard of this CD type before! I wonder how much of the quality of the sound you're experiencing comes from great mastering vs the construction of the discs?
 
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I've not even heard of this CD type before! I wonder how much of the quality of the sound you're experiencing comes from great mastering vs the construction of the discs?
Soundexperience is defenitly from both. At amazo▪︎ you can buy the Inakustic HQCD.

From Inakustik
" To best transmit this musical experience, an HQCD (HiQualityCD) is used as sound carrier. The use of a polycarbonate plastic with improved light transmission and a special alloy for the reflective layer HQCD achieves a high audio quality. HQCDs are fully compatible with all standard CD players."

I have several and first of all the recording and mastering is brilliant, when ripping and playback there was defenitly a soundquality gain in playing the cd.
Testgear was, Lumin U2 MINI, Aurender N series + ACS100, Ansuz Switch
For CD playback, used my older but rebuilded Audionet ART v2 and my Goldnote CD-1000 MK2 Deluxe with outboard Goldnote PSU and a Synergistic Research Purple fuse.
Same Ansuz A2 powercords and one on a A2 Coax, other A2 ethernet cable

In my setup (by far not as highend as some here from) 4 people listning all could hear clear differences with the HQCDs, using regular cd the biggest differences were with great mastered cd's. Some streaming in high res sounded different, some like it better but others found it more clinical.

Total setup was Cambridge audio Edge NQ pre amp + 2 M poweramps, Usher Audio mini Dancer 2 DMD with upgraded filters. Ansuz C2 to Mainz supply and all A2 cabling all the way to the Ushers.
 
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BSCD2 (Blue-spec2) and HQCD are excellent, I also have quite a few HQIICD which in most cases are better. There are also some outstanding HQCDs and HQIICD with JVC K2HD mastering and other top flight mastering that are excellent. UHQCDs are also extremely good.

Other favorites are SHM-XRCD (more rare), SHM-CD, SHM-SACD, K2HD, FIM UltraHD 32bit Pureflection, XRCD24, XRCD2 and original XRCDs. There are also SACD releases from Tower Records, Stereo Sound, Esoteric Audio Japan, King Sound Japan, Octavia Records (Exton), Stockfish Records and a few others that are top of the stack in materials as well as quality.

In these cases mastering/remastering is still the most important however the superior production formats/materials complete it with superior sound that is obvious in an A:B against other disc media of the same master/remaster.
 
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@Corinthian, that exactly mirrors my experience in ripping my 6000+ CD collection to my media server. I view streaming of my ripped CDs as purely a convenience. When I *really* want to listen to music, I play a CD on a good CD transport. It blows away any streaming source by a country mile. A case in point. I recently discovered the amazing Japanese marketed S-HMCDs, which are CDs made on a high density material with a lot of care taken in the transfer (using Rubidium atomic clocks etc.). I bought one of these accidentally during a concert at the Carmel Bach Festival. When I played it back on my CEC TL0 belt-driven CD transport -- the best CD transport I have heard in 40+ years -- I was blown away by how good it sounded. It was an old recording of Herbert von Karajan. The strings were lush, and it sounded like vinyl (without ticks and pops). I thought, hmm.., maybe it was a one-off. So, I ordered 10 more. Guess what? They all sound great. Now, I've ordered 35 more, including some classic jazz and pop music that always sounded awful on CDs. Here are a few of the ones I've heard and liked.

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Very interesting obsvervation and I like you prefer CD playback I’m about to order some UHQRCD’s for my Jazz collection so I’m hoping they have a similar quality to your discovery here
 

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