Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[ssfas]

What for?

This clever chap found a good way of getting back into vinyl, recycling his CD collection and saving the planet at the same time. So this is digital and vinyl combined plus it has a bluetooth output.

 

[Al M.]

You make is sound like the lurgy ...

LOL

A friend of mine put it best: "Analog is a country Al likes to visit, but doesn't want to live in."

I grew up in Austria, but now it's only a country I like to visit. The country I like to live in is the US, where I reside and work now, and have done so for more than 25 years.

 

[Lagonda]

I got this issue out of my headspace on 13 February 2014. I went to see Emily Barker & The Red Clay Halo at Kings Place (a studio quality venue), they played the album Dear River, then went home and listened to the album on both digital and vinyl, a superb recording by Linn. I enjoyed them all, obviously I prefer live, and I’ve never made a comparison since. I enjoy digital and vinyl for what they are. You might as well discuss Pizza v Fish & Chips, Rioja v Sangiovese, Buddhism v Christianity …

Anyway, the argument is often based on prejudice (someone brought up on digital will premise that vinyl can’t come close, but someone brought up on vinyl will premise that digital can’t come close) so is often dependent on age.

Consequently, I spent the years 2016 to 2022, listening to vinyl going through analogue to digital and digital to analog conversion, which in some circles is considered heresy. It has the great advantage of being able to apply DSP in the digital domain.

Most of the Linn vinyl have been recorded or mastered digitally, and it is easy to hear. Not good example of good vinyl.

 

[Another Johnson]

Most of the Linn vinyl has been recorded or mastered digitally, and it is easy to hear. Not good example of good vinyl.

Worse still is that the Linn compilations never present performances that please me. I am a Linn LP12 fan, but I do not collect either digital or vinyl media from Linn. I can’t listen to it.

 

[ssfas]

Worse still is that the Linn compilations never present performances that please me. I am a Linn LP12 fan, but I do not collect either digital or vinyl media from Linn. I can’t listen to it.

Linn’s catalogue is amazingly good, from Sir Charles Makerras’s Mozart, John Butt and the Dunedin Consort (seeing them on a few weeks with Hugh Cutting), several from Robin Ticciati, William Carter, 3 or 4 great recordings by Pinnock with the Royal Academy ensembles (especially a chamber Mahler 4) up to Kuniko Kato’s peerless recordings of Reich and Xenakis and Barb Jungr (who possesses an astonishing voice). There’s 40 years of treasures in the catalogue.

 

[ssfas]

Most of the Linn vinyl have been recorded or mastered digitally, and it is easy to hear. Not good example of good vinyl.

It‘s the only Linn vinyl I own. Bought it at the gig as they needed the money! Otherwise CDs up to 2010 and downloads after that.

 

[Another Johnson]

Linn’s catalogue is amazingly good, from Sir Charles Makerras’s Mozart, John Butt and the Dunedin Consort (seeing them on a few weeks with Hugh Cutting), several from Robin Ticciati, William Carter, 3 or 4 great recordings by Pinnock with the Royal Academy ensembles (especially a chamber Mahler 4) up to Kuniko Kato’s peerless recordings of Reich and Xenakis and Barb Jungr (who possesses an astonishing voice). There’s 40 years of treasures in the catalogue.

It is a matter of taste. It must appeal to some. I have not heard them all … but I’ve heard enough of them to not seek them out. Some years back I was excited to be bequeathed a modest collection of them. I was not motivated to add to the collection.

I am glad that you, and others, enjoy them.

 

[Rexp]

Worse still is that the Linn compilations never present performances that please me. I am a Linn LP12 fan, but I do not collect either digital or vinyl media from Linn. I can’t listen to it.

I'm the opposite, don't like LP12's but like some Linn LP's, like this one:

 

[ssfas]

It is a matter of taste. It must appeal to some. I have not heard them all … but I’ve heard enough of them to not seek them out. Some years back I was excited to be bequeathed a modest collection of them. I was not motivated to add to the collection.

I am glad that you, and others, enjoy them.

Linn is closely associated with the Royal Academy of Music, the leading academy in the UK and one of the best in the world. They collaborate with many other leading academies (in a scheme funded by Sir Elton John). Linn’s chief engineer is a a visiting professor at RAM. https://www.ram.ac.uk/news/hobbs-visiting-prof-rec He produces the Academy’s recordings. They provide opportunity to many young musicians starting out as well as nationally and internationally established artists. For example, they gave Robin Ticciati his first break as a recording artist, he is now one of the world‘s top young conductors.

Linn Records is far more than an outfit set up in the 1980s to make test recordings for Linn Audio, it makes a significant contribution towards classical musical recording in the UK, helping students become recording performers, whatever label they work with. So I’m on the lookout for their recordings with new artists more than dusty old recordings (although I have some favourites, like William Carter’s recordings of Fernando Sor).

In complete contrast, you have UMG Classical, which is now being given new life by a young lady exec from London, signing up big stars like Lang Lang, who now give you Disney on DGG, but have also recently bought Hyperion, which records many London based artists. They also signed up the Royal Academy’s most famous recent graduate, Sheku Kanneh-Mason, on their Decca label.

 

[Another Johnson]

I stand corrected. I must like them all. How could I not with such credentials?

Seriously though, I am glad that you like them.

I remain an LP12 fan in spite of the Linnies. I did get the memo where we were all informed that we like everything that they put out … but Hamish told me that it wasn’t enforceable more than 1000 kilometers outside of Glasgow.

 

[ssfas]

I stand corrected. I must like them all. How could I not with such credentials?

Seriously though, I am glad that you like them.

I remain an LP12 fan in spite of the Linnies. I did get the memo where we were all informed that we like everything that they put out … but Hamish told me that it wasn’t enforceable more than 1000 kilometers outside of Glasgow.

I've never owned an LP12 and never will. It's a posh Ariston. I did use their DS streamer, but disliked their digital amplifier. I suspect irrelevant given Linn Records is not part of Linn Audio. They were run separately and Linn Records are now part of Outhere Music. https://outhere-music.com/en/labels/linn-records

I'm not aware of another label that does similar work working with student musicians to become recording artists, and with such close academic links. With Linn and RAM you get some really interesting and unusual recordings. The sound quality always seemed good to me. Currently listening to this attempted recreation of a horn virtuoso concert from 1742. Have tickets for a live performance next year.

 

[christoph]

Lampizator does allow 7 days trial. I don't think that's long enough if differences are less than large.

10 minutes will be long enough, you don't need 7 days

 

[PeterA]

10 minutes will be long enough, you don't need 7 days

And a few notes on a piano in the room should be able to answer the question of the thread for you.

 

[Al M.]

10 minutes will be long enough, you don't need 7 days

There is something called break-in time.

It's usually longer than 10 minutes

 

[christoph]

There is something called break-in time.

It's usually longer than 10 minutes

If you compare a Lampi to another DAC, normally it sounds superior from cold but I agree that it will even get better with more break-in

After that, you find your favorite tubes and it will become yet again better

 

[bonzo75]

A stopgap (while waiting to afford 90k) that could be way greater than an Esoteric K01X would be an option. It would have to less than $15k. Or keep what I have and learn to enjoy that.

Lampizator does allow 7 days trial. I don't think that's long enough if differences are less than large.

Lampi big 7 was better than Esoteric K01 and K01x, with, the K01 was also with the clock. But you have to have the right tubes. The 7 day trial period depends, if you have 3 sets of tubes that you can roll, you will know the same day, if you have only one set of tube that is not a good enough match in your system, it isn't ideal. Whoever is allowing you to demo should get tubes across to you.

 

[Rexp]

For anyone wondering what all the fuss is about vinyl. Here's a visual demonstration of the emotional impact it can have if you use the right hardware (Start at 51.20):

Live Multitest - affordable (MAX 1000 Euro) phono pre-amps! - Part 1

We are going to test some affordable phono pre-amps. Yes... we finally are doing it! We have a couple of cool pre-amps to listen to. Brands that are featurin...

www.youtube.com

 

[billeames]

Hello

Its a struggle to match vinyl. Again, as I mentioned I haver firsthand experience wit super expensive CH Precision C1.2 D1.5 in store only. Its close to vinyl.

If the Grandioso new K1X SE can be somewhat close to vinyl, that would be great. Perhaps DCS Bartok, apex or non-apex, but I think that is a lower level, i.e. not close to vinyl. On its own, Esoteric K01X is OK in 2023. The old Simaudio Andromeda, which I have (great dynamics) is not as OK as the Esoteric K01x. Andromeda CD's seem less lush than records but dynamic. Esoteric K01x makes an effort towards lush. Maybe the Bartok would be more lush than the K01X.

I cant give up on CD's, as I have 6000 of them. A possible solution is to be happy with what I have. It may be 10 years until CD can equal vinyl, if it ever does. Too late for me.

The store would send grandioso K1x SE freight. My K01x was sent FEDEX.

One thing about human nature, is that time evens out things, as far as emotionally wanting something.

But the truth is the Clearaudio Master Innovation is fantastic to me. That was true in the store and home. So would be the TechDAS Airforce 3 premium. Linn LP12 Klimax is below those.

Buying K01x SE would be risky as I dont know if its anywhere near the quality of CH Precision--c1.2 and a transport, like K01x.

 

[jbr7]

I always felt that a good vinyl pressing sounded better than a cd, no ifs, ands, or buts. That opinion is currently being challenged by some recent changes to my audio setup. Because I'm running out of space in my apartment to store media, I decided to investigate the online digital world in an attempt to cut down on ownership of physical material. I own about 1500 LPs and a like number of cds.

A fortuitous confluence of circumstances enabled me to join the digital world in a big way, with the acquisition of a full, but used, dCS Vivaldi stack. My attempt to cut down on physical media has been in vain so far, as the Vivaldi Transport has SACD capability, which I never had before. Naturally, I purchased 10 SACDs to see how they sounded, lol. I was pleased that not only did they sound wonderful, but was also shocked that many of my normal cds sounded quite vinyl-like when listening through this setup. I had difficulty discerning a difference between vinyl and cds on many recordings.

I have only briefly listened to streaming audio from one of the main streaming services. However, I'm impressed with the audio quality I've heard so far, using this format.

Unfortunately, to get this quality the price was quite steep, even though the equipment involved is used. I am very gratified with how things are sounding. I hope this trend will continue as I attempt to wean myself from ownership of physical media, lol.

 

[bonzo75]

I always felt that a good vinyl pressing sounded better than a cd, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Can you please give some examples of good vinyl pressings?