Are High-End Cables a Scam?

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
3,022
0
0
thread...
this evening...
in one sitting...
while listening to Queen...
I'm glad I bought this CD :cool:
Petshop Boys - PopArt works great as well :)
If Queen fan might like the PopArt hits collection, IMO best Petshop Boys hits collection album.

Cheers
Orb
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
2,102
29
48
Thanks, Orb...

Petshop Boys - PopArt works great as well :)
If Queen fan might like the PopArt hits collection, IMO best Petshop Boys hits collection album.

Cheers
Orb
I'll check it out. My spouse and I had some unused Border's gift cards, so we thought to use them before they were no longer negotiable :eek:

Just received Bonnie Raitt, Best of...Capitol, '89-'03; Blood, Sweat & Tears, You've Made Me So Very Happy; and Queen, Greatest Hits I & II. I'm only now appreciating these great artists
:D
 
As is often the case, the test conditions are not described in detail. Were the rooms treated to prevent comb filtering? Were 'dentist chairs' used to ensure exact repeat of head positions of listeners? If not, all subjective listening data is suspect.
 

MylesBAstor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,222
3
38
As is often the case, the test conditions are not described in detail. Were the rooms treated to prevent comb filtering? Were 'dentist chairs' used to ensure exact repeat of head positions of listeners? If not, all subjective listening data is suspect.
Yes their heads were fixed in a halo brace with the spikes driven 1/2 inch into their skulls.

Oh and having something behind the head in a dentist chair doesn't work either.
 
Yes their heads were fixed in a halo brace with the spikes driven 1/2 inch into their skulls.

Oh and having something behind the head in a dentist chair doesn't work either.
The purpose of using a dentist's chair is repeatability. If the listener's head isn't in the exact same spot for each test pass, the frequency response ripples will be in a different place, affecting drastically, the tonal balance.
 

MylesBAstor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,222
3
38
The purpose of using a dentist's chair is repeatability. If the listener's head isn't in the exact same spot for each test pass, the frequency response ripples will be in a different place, affecting drastically, the tonal balance.
Yeah I know about that. John Crabbe wrote about that years ago and anyone owning an estat has experienced that sweet spot. Still doesn't answer the question about the headrest affecting the sound. Better off with a halo!
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,626
38
48
Metro DC
This should make cable skeptics apoplectic. (I don't know what that word means.)
The Synergistic Research room fascinated on several levels. The front-end consisted of Esoteric's P-03 transport ($16,500), D-03 digital-to-analog converter ($16,500), G-0Rb rubidium (atomic) master clock ($18,500), C-03 line stage ($12,000) and A-03 stereo amplifier ($14,000). As at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, everything was hooked up with Synergistic's bogglingly costly, actively shielded Galileo interconnects ($25,000/pair) and speaker cables ($40,000/pair), and the room was sprinkled with Acoustic Arts resonator room treatments. YG Acoustics Anat Reference II Studio loudspeakers ($70,000/pair) completed what Synergistic's Ted Denny stated was "basically my home system." YG Acoustics speakers did nothing for me at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest, but here there was a sweetly refined delicacy, tremendous focus, and spacious and seductive bloom and expansiveness. Simply put, this was a marvelous-sounding system that spoke very well not only for the YG speakers but for everything in front of them.
emphasis supplied. Note the fancy cable lifters. Reminds me of my childhood train set.
 

Attachments

fas42

Addicted To Best
Jan 8, 2011
3,973
0
0
NSW Australia
This should make cable skeptics apoplectic. (I don't know what that word means.) emphasis supplied. Note the fancy cable lifters. Reminds me of my childhood train set.
Actually, there are a couple of smarts in there: actively shielded makes a lot of sense, far more than myriads of the other wanker-like claims for various techniques, and the cable lifters seem to really do what they should do: keep the cable insulators from touching anything but space.

The proof's in the pudding: YG gets plenty of bad raps, but "sweetly refined delicacy, tremendous focus, and spacious and seductive bloom and expansiveness" says to me that they're on the right track ...

Frank
 

RogerD

Well-Known Member
May 23, 2010
3,299
28
48
BiggestLittleCity
This should make cable skeptics apoplectic. (I don't know what that word means.) emphasis supplied. Note the fancy cable lifters. Reminds me of my childhood train set.

I think that picture needs a toy "Godzilla" in the middle.

 
Yeah I know about that. John Crabbe wrote about that years ago and anyone owning an estat has experienced that sweet spot. Still doesn't answer the question about the headrest affecting the sound. Better off with a halo!
The effect of the headrest is irrelevant; I'm talking about CONSISTENCY in the test setup. If the goal is to hear the subtle differences between two setups, you must eliminate all other variables. Short of an anechoic chamber, this is going to be very difficult to achieve.
 

MylesBAstor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,222
3
38
The effect of the headrest is irrelevant; I'm talking about CONSISTENCY in the test setup. If the goal is to hear the subtle differences between two setups, you must eliminate all other variables. Short of an anechoic chamber, this is going to be very difficult to achieve.
Great, the headrest will eliminate all the subleties and music so everything will sound the same. Just like communism: reduce everything to the LCD.
 

MylesBAstor

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,222
3
38
Uh, that seems quite a leap...
Don have your ever heard what a high vs. low backed listening chair does to the sound? :)
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 23, 2010
3,577
26
48
Monument, CO
Yes, as a matter of fact, but a small headrest to my ears does not disrupt the sound as much as you implied. That is, my ears, admittedly made of clay... We have a fairly high-backed couch in our media room now and I hate it for sound though it is comfy. Comfy except I have to sit up straight to get my ears above it! I prefer the old director's chair myself.

If the headrest does not extend significantly beyond your head, or supports the neck region without coming up to ear level, then it should work. For listening tests in my primordial past the prime chair had a fairly narrow seat, a narrow back that extended up just maybe a foot or so, then a pole (support) topped by a small headrest "spot" comprised of a small round pillow about 6" in diameter. It provided a nice fixed spot to center your head during trials to minimize variation without coloring the sound. That is Mark's point; to provide a fixed reference point. Frankly, it would take a heck of a headrest to make my old D79 sound like my Emotiva...

Wait, maybe there's a market for that! :)
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
2,755
27
48
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I'm tall so a high back chair still allows my ears to be above (barely) the back of the chair. And since I'm the only one who listens to 2 channel, it works well.

For movies, my rear surrounds are high enough that they are fine for those who care.

My wife, (who I love dearly but is NOT one of those who cares) slouches down in the chairs (they recline) when she watches a movie and is incredibly happy in that position. She doesn't give a rip about "maybe" missing a bit of what goes on in the surrounds.

So everyone wins in my case.

I'm also not convinced that even if the back of the chair covered my (no longer young) ears that it would be all that bad. The chairs are incredibly absorptive.

A friend has solved the problem differently. His reclining theater chairs have adjustable and removable head rests. He removes his when listening to music.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
10,831
90
48
This should make cable skeptics apoplectic. (I don't know what that word means.) emphasis supplied. Note the fancy cable lifters. Reminds me of my childhood train set.
Sounds like the Synergistic room was aptly named. I have heard Esoteric digital (not pre/amps) and also the YGs...this combination does make sense to me, based on what i have heard about their amplification. The YGs did strike me as very transparent speakers (ie, passing through the signal from the front-end). I am starting to really like some of these more super-transparent items in audio. Before, i think they tended to come with some more strident aberrations...but now there are some superbly transparent audio pieces which do not show this. The Magicos, the super-big Wilsons, the CJ GAT (which is still a CJ in DNA, but is way more transparent than any other CJ i've ever heard...and most any other pre i have heard too).

It clearly requires thought in systems because such a component wont color the sound no matter what comes before or after...but once you get the combination right...boy can you get magic (which is realism, musicality...and detail, detail).
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. A place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss existing and new audio products, music servers, music streamers and computer audio, digital to audio convertors (DACS), turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel to reel, speakers, headphones, tube amplifiers and solid state amplification. Founded in 2010 What's Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing