Any Esoteric fans here?

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes, right on there Gordon. Infact whenever there's a demo and we think it sounded great, maybe the case but when at home, in our own personal settings, these highly praised items can sound totally different. They would either add positive results or simply just not make the mark.

Then there's always the justification to try to make it work; room correction gizmo's, tweaking, placement options & trials, and oh! It has to work simply because it's highly rated and costs a lot of money... whatever.

Over the years I developed a simple strategy, as much as I would like to believe the reviews and what their worth, I first get in touch directly with the importer or dealer. Then I ask them for a home trial. If they agree, that means they are confident in their products, plus they trust their customers with the item. Whatever their policy is, if they want a deposit, driver's licence, I'm happy to oblige, afterall they're also taking a risk.

If the dealer says no to a home trial, simply means they're not confident, lack of trust, don't want to take the risk and pretty much not interested in your business. Thank them kindly and I walk out the door.

Now, I'm not saying that every dealer needs to do this but if there's a will there's a way. Plus once you receive outstanding service, that trust builds up to a strong relationship, regardless of price. That's where they will lend you whatever they have knowing that you will take care of the item, and you also have an obligation to return it as new. This takes years of commitment.

I have notice though over the years this kind of model is deteriorating, most probably due to on-line platforms taking over, quick sale perceptions and what you hear is what you buy in store. No other way around it...

It's certainly great to be able to access various media, including the printed material, such as Stereophile and TAS, just to get an idea. However, at the end of the day, the ultimate demo is and will always be a home trial, in your personal settings.

Like I said, between you and the seller, if there's a will there's a way. Make it happen!
Cheers mate, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

It’s becoming more common to have a home trial of a component now days and more and more shops offer this service. It’s definitely a good thing.

 

[Nemal1]

…providing you have dealers anywhere near where you live and willing to undertake such a service

 

[thedudeabides]

Yes or you can use e-commerce companies like Music Direct. Allowing In home audition by dealers should be the rule (with appropriate security) not the exception. As RJ said, if a dealer won't do this, what are they trying to hide.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Yes or you can use e-commerce companies like Music Direct. Allowing In home audition by dealers should be the rule (with appropriate security) not the exception. As RJ said, if a dealer won't do this, what are they trying to hide.

That assumes they hold all the range in stock.
For boutique dealers of expensive brands that are built to order that can be a big financial commitment.
To me that's one of the contradictions of the high end;
the higher the sticker price, the harder it is to audition.

 

[brodricj]

To me it's not worth the effort trying to arrange an audition. I always buy sight unseen and sound unheard. Including Esoteric, and I own Grandioso. With that sort of pedrigree you can buy with confidence without any need for audition.

 

[infinitely baffled]

The only components i auditioned in the approved manner before purchase were my subwoofers, and Entreq cables and ground box.
Everything else i bought unheard.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

To me it's not worth the effort trying to arrange an audition. I always buy sight unseen and sound unheard. Including Esoteric, and I own Grandioso. With that sort of pedrigree you can buy with confidence without any need for audition.

Agree.the acoustics are completely different in the show room, so audition doesn’t help much.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes or you can use e-commerce companies like Music Direct. Allowing In home audition by dealers should be the rule (with appropriate security) not the exception. As RJ said, if a dealer won't do this, what are they trying to hide.

Yes, correct G.
Over the decades I've noticed that it used to be a fairly simple thing, that is to lend a particular unit for home trial. The trust relationship starts there and over time you've pretty much purchased the entire system from those trusted dealers/direct importers. We used to offer this service from the start, and they were genuine relationships built over years... still to this day (after selling off the business 20yrs since) some of those customers I've personally sold to still keep in touch. Always a fantastic opportunity to talk with them and reminisce about those good old days and how their systems have evolved... basically talk shop all things audio.

Now, it is not so much the case. I would have thought otherwise, merely because there is a lot more gear available at a vast range of pricing... so might as well try all means to sell your product.

At the same time, crime has escalated, there are far too many people doing absolutely nothing at home/cave other than trying to scam people or make a quick buck on someone else's ignorance. Basically prying on some soul virtually 24/7.

Just the other week, I received a call from some Indian lady. Stated that she was from Amazon Prime and that my credit cards have been used in several unauthorised transactions amounting to over 2grand... Damn, she sounded so authentic until I started asking a few questions, what's the name on the cards, what's the exact amount and which bank...? Couldn't answer anything, other than "hop onto this website, download a form fill in all required details and submit." And so I did! However, the info provided on the form referred to Mickey mouse and Donald duck, along with a few nice words... and that's all she wrote!

I guess, similarly for whatever reasons, the "high-end" chaps wouldn't want to engage in home trials for such reasons. Then again there's always the possibility of taking other precautions, such as Driver's licence, Medicare card number, and a deposit, which I did when trialing the Momentum preamp and Dartzeel amplifiers.

Basically I still believe in my Pop's advice, if there's a will there's a way... bless! So, honestly speaking, maybe those chaps who don't want to engage in home trials just don't have the will or trust or they have an existing customer base to rely on. Hence, why take the risk of some low-end entry level chap who's after a home trial. The budget is only 10grand, not interested... 20grand and above, wink wink $$$!

Just my opinion and a trend that I've been observing over the decades, that's all.
Cheers G, and enjoy those fine tunes!
RJ

 

[thedudeabides]

To me it's not worth the effort trying to arrange an audition. I always buy sight unseen and sound unheard. Including Esoteric, and I own Grandioso. With that sort of pedrigree you can buy with confidence without any need for audition.

That's really rolling the big dice.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

OTOH Maybe a home trial is not always necessary nor is it always possible under certain circumstances. I've faced similar situations both offering to customers and being a potential buyer myself. For what it's worth, if there's a possibility of auditioning the gear over a certain period of time then that would provide a better idea of its signature sound. Revisiting that same item placed in different gear would probably not only enhance the audition experience but can also confuse the plot...

This has happened on several occasions, especially when considering DACs, cables and accessories, not so much in amplifiers but more so with source components. Then comes the speakers and room acoustics and everything goes haywire!

At the end, we bring the items home after purchasing, very excited and all too eager to hear first impressions... and usually the dice rolls in the right direction but sometimes it doesn't! That's when the guilt hits- dam! Should have done a home trial... go figure!

I think fair and square, if the seller is willing to do a returns policy if the customer is not happy, that would be the best possible solution by far. Perhaps then an alternative item could be offered and at the end all parties are jumping for joy!

Cheers to that policy!
Best, RJ

 

[hongkongfoufou]

To me it's not worth the effort trying to arrange an audition. I always buy sight unseen and sound unheard. Including Esoteric, and I own Grandioso. With that sort of pedrigree you can buy with confidence without any need for audition.

I have listened an Accuphase DP-550 in my system. No evident differencies between my old Marantz SA7S1. I have listened the Esoteric K-03XS in my system....too big are the differences. Sold my SA7S1, buy a Esoteric....but the old Mark Levinson DAC N360S is better than the Esoteric...

 

[infinitely baffled]

I have listened an Accuphase DP-550 in my system. No evident differencies between my old Marantz SA7S1. I have listened the Esoteric K-03XS in my system....too big are the differences. Sold my SA7S1, buy a Esoteric....but the old Mark Levinson DAC N360S is better than the Esoteric...

I wonder if the latest AK4---7 dac,
as in the K01xd or N01xd,
would change things?

 

[GSOphile]

I wonder if the latest AK4---7 dac,
as in the K01xd or N01xd,
would change things?

In their latest offerings Esoteric no longer uses AK DAC chips. They use their own discrete component DAC design (Master Sound Discrete DAC), so they are no longer tied to someone else's chip offerings, product cycles. As a K-01XD (and former K-03X) owner, IMO Esoteric's new DAC direction is a big improvement.

 

[infinitely baffled]

I think we're in agreement....i just couldn't remember the middle digits.
I'm referring to the AK4497.
Or has that now been replaced?
I thought the ak4497 was in the K01xd, and represented state of the (esoteric) art

 

[GSOphile]

I think we're in agreement....i just couldn't remember the middle digits.
I'm referring to the AK4497.
Or has that now been replaced?
I thought the ak4497 was in the K01xd, and represented state of the (esoteric) art

Please read my above post carefully. Esoteric is NOT USING AK chips for any of their latest high end machines. They are using in-house developed discrete component DACs.

 

[stehno]

I have the upgrade bug! Just wanted to pick all the fine minds here before I pull the trigger. I've owned a Playback Designs mps-5 player with usb-x for a number of years. Aside from
needing some repair issues it's been a great addition. PD is a wonderful company that really is second to none as far as costumer service. I have a large collection of SACDs and have a fairly large library of downloaded music with many DSD recordings. Mac mini with uptone modifications as music server with Audirvana Plus software. I'm very curious about the new Esoteric K-03 XD sacd player. It seems to check all my boxes. Does anyone have
an insight and experience with this player? I certainly do not want a sideways move. Looking for advice. Thanks so much. The rest of my system includes: Wilson Sasha 1 speakers,
ARC Ref 6 preamp, Parasound JC-1 + mono amps. I listen to mostly jazz, blues and rock.

I owned an Esoteric UX-3SE (special edition) that reportedly had included over 100 upgrades over and above the UX-3 model (I used to be an Esoteric dealer). I was rather pleased with that unit having previously owned a custom mod'ed APL cdp just prior to that and a POS Sony SCD-1 before that. The Esoteric had the VRDS transport mechanism, very high build quality, built like 60 lbs. tank, etc. In fact, I put a lot of weight in the way a component is constructed as a requirement to achieve certain levels of performance and I'd swear that the entire chassis was mounted / anchored to the VRDS transport. I mean Esoteric really seemed to have designed and constructed the unit rather thoroughly.

Anyway, in the 2014 era I got a bee in my bonet to audition the OPPO 105d ucdp because I'd been hearing so much about OPPO over the past 10 years. I researched the product, evaluated its construction, read a few reviews which were all pretty mediocre regarding its performance and found myself trying to read between the lines of the reviews, etc. OPPO had a 30-day satisfaction guaranteed or money back so I thought what the hell. I unboxed it and didn't even have it properly mounted in my rack and within a few days of burn-in was about on par with my $8500 Esoteric unit. Actually the $1400 OPPO was barely a tad more musical so I kept the OPPO and sold the now aging Esoteric unit.

Within a short time I needed the OPPO's passive volume attenuator to audition some new monoblock amps (I'd sold my pre-amp) and I was very impressed with its pristine and even delicate delivery. A short time I stopped using the CD transport and instead was reading music in from an SSD drive via an OPPO's USB port and once that signal path burned in the OPPO was significantly more musical. After exercising these two OPPO features, there was no way my Esoteric unit could compare musically. And though I've no doubt there's plenty of units out there far superior to the OPPO, it's still my source today. Performance-wise it does more than hold its own and the only thing missing is the bling.

My point being with all this is, try not to get too hung up on a particular manufacturer or model as you never know what may surprise you from a perforamnce perspective.

Hope this helps,

 

[hongkongfoufou]

I haven't heard this new product. I just know series's XD are a big improvement over XS series. They don't use AK chipset now. But I have doubts about their new DAC because the old DAC Mark Levinson N360s I have is better than the Marantz SA7S1 and the Esoteric K-03XS too.
I use the clock Grimm CC1.
So the big question is why old DAC is better than the new DAC ?

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I haven't heard this new product. I just know series's XD are a big improvement over XS series. They don't use AK chipset now. But I have doubts about their new DAC because the old DAC Mark Levinson N360s I have is better than the Marantz SA7S1 and the Esoteric K-03XS too.
I use the clock Grimm CC1.
So the big question is why old DAC is better than the new DAC ?

Some old dacs sound better than new ones simply because of better quality parts used.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I owned an Esoteric UX-3SE (special edition) that reportedly had included over 100 upgrades over and above the UX-3 model (I used to be an Esoteric dealer). I was rather pleased with that unit having previously owned a custom mod'ed APL cdp just prior to that and a POS Sony SCD-1 before that. The Esoteric had the VRDS transport mechanism, very high build quality, built like 60 lbs. tank, etc. In fact, I put a lot of weight in the way a component is constructed as a requirement to achieve certain levels of performance and I'd swear that the entire chassis was mounted / anchored to the VRDS transport. I mean Esoteric really seemed to have designed and constructed the unit rather thoroughly.

Anyway, in the 2014 era I got a bee in my bonet to audition the OPPO 105d ucdp because I'd been hearing so much about OPPO over the past 10 years. I researched the product, evaluated its construction, read a few reviews which were all pretty mediocre regarding its performance and found myself trying to read between the lines of the reviews, etc. OPPO had a 30-day satisfaction guaranteed or money back so I thought what the hell. I unboxed it and didn't even have it properly mounted in my rack and within a few days of burn-in was about on par with my $8500 Esoteric unit. Actually the $1400 OPPO was barely a tad more musical so I kept the OPPO and sold the now aging Esoteric unit.

Within a short time I needed the OPPO's passive volume attenuator to audition some new monoblock amps (I'd sold my pre-amp) and I was very impressed with its pristine and even delicate delivery. A short time I stopped using the CD transport and instead was reading music in from an SSD drive via an OPPO's USB port and once that signal path burned in the OPPO was significantly more musical. After exercising these two OPPO features, there was no way my Esoteric unit could compare musically. And though I've no doubt there's plenty of units out there far superior to the OPPO, it's still my source today. Performance-wise it does more than hold its own and the only thing missing is the bling.

My point being with all this is, try not to get too hung up on a particular manufacturer or model as you never know what may surprise you from a perforamnce perspective.

Hope this helps,

Very good point, woof woof!

That's the very reason why I don't go top of the line. Couldn't be bothered.
There are varied parameters in any given system and not one any given system is identical or similar. Other very good mates who also own CLX's drive them with various gear, and It sounds glorious and that was my opening review to the CLX Art. On a slightly different angle, I'm using a full array of CJ tube amplifiers, pre-power monoblocks including phono, all tube, and it sounds wonderful! Same CLX's, same company ML but completely different performance and presentation... obviously different room settings and the list goes on... and neither of us go for top of the line gear. Simply because there's no point.

Similarly, regarding the Eso line up and what's available, looks like they're offering some pretty nice gear all to be seriously considered. There are numerous other brands to also consider which are equally outstanding and perhaps superior, who knows. One thing is I was considering their clock G01x but I think I'll just wait a bit longer... things are changing.

Once your system has reached a certain threshold and delivers all the satisfaction you want (that's if you know what you really want...) It fully immerses and engages your attention and is right up there in terms of the most natural form of reproduced music, that's all that matters!

It can't be perfect, and there will never be the so called ultimate, such a thing doesn't exist. If it's good enough, just sit back and enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ