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Thread: Problem(s) with new Klaudio LP200S ultrasonic cleaner - Any other owners?

  1. #1

    Problem(s) with new Klaudio LP200S ultrasonic cleaner - Any other owners?

    Long time reader and first time poster, I run the ultrasonic record cleaning service Record Genie in the USA, and hope to get some Klaudio help!

    I'm always looking to improve my ultrasonic record cleaning results, so I've just bought a new Klaudio machine. It's their "S" version LP200S that uses an external reservoir (or separate supply and drain containers) that should allow each and every record in a batch to be cleaned with perfectly clean water..

    Hopefully another "S" owner can help, as I've got a puzzling problem with mine!

    I've been in touch with Tim at Klaudio of course, and am currently waiting for a reply from him once he's talked to the engineers there, but he's been silent since Wednesday, and it's now Saturday and it's unlikely he'll reply at the weekend..

    So, for any LP200S owners, can you tell me how you have your machine set up, specifically regarding the external reservoir you are using, if you are using separate supply and drain containers, or the "tap water" kit?

    This new "S" version has no internal reservoir. The "supply" and "drain" hoses mean the supply pump can draw water from a clean container, and the drain hose can dump used water into another (dirty) container. The machine is designed to refill each time, so the distilled water won't be very dirty from cleaning just one record, but I have RO (reverse osmosis) equipment to filter the used water back to 0ppm purity, so it can be returned to the clean container and not wasted.

    The LP200S with two containers should have an advantage over the regular Klaudio machines with internal reservoir, since those reuse the water and don't have a filter. I am using two 5-gallon food grade buckets for my supply and drain containers.

    The problem with my LP200S is that water starts coming out of the drain hose as soon as the machine starts filling up, and it continues pumping and draining throughout the wash cycle. So much water goes through that it takes about 4 gallons per record during a 5 minute wash, from the supply bucket to the drain bucket.

    Nothing should be coming out of the drain until the wash cycle ends, it should be using less than half a gallon per record, and only emptying the machine when the drain indicator lights up, right before it starts drying!

    It seems like Tim at Klaudio thinks this is "operator error" on my part.. His last email stated that no other "S" owners have had problems, except for some that didn't have their drain hose positioned properly, which is easily solved.

    I'm pretty sure my machine's drain control is programmed incorrectly, and I'm wondering if other "S" machines have the same problem?

    Anyone else have an "S" with the same setup, supply and drain containers? Even if you're just using a single container (or the Klaudio "tap supply kit") could you please take a minute to check and see if water is coming out of the (blue) drain hose while your machine is filling up and while it is washing?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Member WntrMute2's Avatar
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    Did you ever get to the bottom of your problem? I am considering that same machine.

  3. #3
    Addicted to Best! Bobvin's Avatar
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    I don’t know about the unit mentioned, but it sounds like a solenoid isn’t working to open/close a valve on the drain line. (Purely speculation on my part).
    óBob Vineyard, aka bobvin

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  4. #4
    Hi WntrMute2,

    I don't think you can buy a Klaudio's LP200S machine right now (December 2017) since they apparently pulled it from the market in August/September..

    Tim at Klaudio told me that it's been made "Click to Notify" on the Klaudio website while their engineers work on solving multiple problems..

    I returned both the LP200S machines that I tried using, and thankfully my full purchase price and shipping costs were refunded..

    I must say that Klaudio have been very supportive of Record Genie in the past, for example I had my original two machines replaced at no cost in May 2014 once they came out with a newer version that had a cooling loop added (radiator on the back). I had overheating problems with the original Klaudio that had no cooling loop, and suspected that the LP200S would suffer from the same problem, no cooling loop means temps will get out of control for heavy users who clean more than a few records in one session..

    I'm not an engineer, but it seems the LP200S just wasn't properly developed and tested before being launched.. The first machine I had was DOA (with some motor wires completely missing) and did not rotate records, and as such that one machine could not have been QA tested for correct operation. That machine also had drain hose solenoid (or programming) problems.. Honestly, missing wiring is a bit shocking for a $4,000 item, I'd expect a $40 toaster to work perfectly out of the box..

    The second machine Klaudio sent would not work as I wanted, and I think even Tim was confused with how the LP200S was supposed to work, things only became clear after he talked to the engineers.. I wanted to use TWO containers with it, one for a clean 0ppm water supply that I could refill, and a second container to catch used water. That seemed logical since it has TWO hoses and could be used with a tap supply and connected to a drain, one hose for the clean supply, the other for used drain water. I still don't understand why using buckets would be any different! I would never use tap water, but I wanted every record to be cleaned with pure clean 0ppm RODI water, with no dirtying of the supply..

    Tim told me the Klaudio engineers had only ever tested the LP200S with ONE container, circulating the same water over and over again. Given my concerns, just out of curiosity, I ran some temperature tests with 5 gallons of distilled water in a bucket (with both hoses in it, so circulating) and water temps rose from an ambient 62F to over 90F after cleaning just 17 records, so overheating the LP200S is a problem without a cooling loop, just like it could be with the original reservoir machines back in 2013 and early 2014..

    To their credit, Klaudio refunded my purchase price and shipping, although I received nothing for my wasted time. At least one Record Genie customer that I've talked to about this commented that I should have been a paid tester for Klaudio, or at least a beta tester before they launch a new product, but nobody from Klaudio has followed up with me, and to be honest I'm quite disappointed with the communication(s) I've had with Tim at Klaudio about the LP200S..

    My needs as a heavy user are obviously not typical, but I'm not looking forward to the inevitable time when I need service/repair on one of my two Klaudio machines. The 2 year warranty is long since over, and Tim has told me that the ultrasonic transducers and driver boards on the version I have need to be replaced together when either one fails, they have to be matched. Service/repair on the Audio Desk machines I use is also a problem, very expensive, so I've started actively looking for other options that will be more serviceable. I need more cost-effective choices than a $3,500 Audio Desk or a $4,800 Klaudio (regular version that's still available) while still giving excellent cleaning results..

    A new 120khz ultrasonic record cleaning machine called Degritter from Estonia may be an option - I don't really like the name, but they seem like a smart bunch of guys and are currently beta-testing their machine with about a dozen European customers before starting production for sale in 2018 - Now why didn't Klaudio think of doing that? I don't know how many were sold, and if they've all been returned to the factory, but beta-testing the LP200S would have resulted in a superior product, instead of it being withdrawn!

    Enjoy the music!

    Best regards,
    Dave

  5. #5
    Hi Bobvin,

    I do believe you're correct, the problems I had were with the drain solenoid that allows the "wash basin" to empty, or with the programming of it.. See my other reply..

    Best regards,
    Dave

  6. #6
    Addicted to Best! Pb Blimp's Avatar
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    I bought the KLaudio KD-CLN-LP200 with reservoir in November and indeed the LP200S model (without reservoir) was "not on stock." (Now I understand why.) That said, I can not say enough good things about the LP200. It is an exceptionally well built and designed machine that just works great.
    Paul

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pb Blimp View Post
    I bought the KLaudio KD-CLN-LP200 with reservoir in November and indeed the LP200S model (without reservoir) was "not on stock." (Now I understand why.) That said, I can not say enough good things about the LP200. It is an exceptionally well built and designed machine that just works great.
    Hi Paul,

    Yes, later versions of the Klaudio with reservoir and a cooling loop (radiator on back) have been more reliable than the Audio Desk machines, my Klaudio machines are from 2014 and have been great. I have two of each manufacturer's machines, and use them all heavily..

    Klaudio has made and sold a lot of the "reservoir" machines, and there seem to be few issues reported with them, although I am concerned about the transducers and driver circuits needing to be replaced all-together as a matched set, when they do eventually fail..

    I was hoping for other "S" version owners to chime in here, and report their experience of the "S" machine with external reservoir - Nobody has yet..

    Best regards,
    Dave
    Last edited by Record Genie; 12-16-2017 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Typo, clarity..

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