Degritter considerations

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Blue Notes are one thing but there is fantastic jazz on Strata East, Black Lion, Steeple Chase, ECM, etc that can be had for less than $15 in most cases. To not buy "second hand" records is missing out on 90% of the available music our there.

Oh, I agree on that. I buy tons of used records. The other advantage of the originals is that you know they are AAA while many of the re-issues are not.
 

tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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The machine will tell you when to replace the water or replace the filter. It’s 25 cycles (I think) for wash and no set cycles for the filter, whenever it’s too dirty. It will also go into maintenance mode every 50 (I think) cycles and clean itself. They sell the tanks separately for $100 so you can easily do rinse only cycles with a single machine.

Two factors to consider when contemplating use of the same machine for rinsing as washing:
- is the rinse water passing through the same filter as the wash water?
- how do you clean the wash tank itself - not the water tank but the chamber where the cavitators are?
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Two factors to consider when contemplating use of the same machine for rinsing as washing:
- is the rinse water passing through the same filter as the wash water?
- how do you clean the wash tank itself - not the water tank but the chamber where the cavitators are?

None of the commercial machines I have owned or seen do a good job of cleaning the water. The filters are not very good. Also, I think the wash and rinse water is the same.
 

djsina2

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May 30, 2019
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Two factors to consider when contemplating use of the same machine for rinsing as washing:
- is the rinse water passing through the same filter as the wash water?
- how do you clean the wash tank itself - not the water tank but the chamber where the cavitators are?
Yes, it would be the same filter but 30 seconds or less to swap if you’re at that level of neurosis.

Not sure about the wash tank cleaning, never thought about doing it. Maybe someday…
 

ACHiPo

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Feb 22, 2015
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I've got about 7 months and 300 records on my Degritter and am quite happy with it. I preclean all new-to-me records in a SpinClean using their solution and recommended concentration. I concur that even new records leave a lot of crud in my SpinClean tank, but it's mostly vinyl shreds.

I run 1/2 the recommended concentration of Degritter solution in the Degritter to minimize stuff left after drying. I figure it is a balance--no wetting agent and its unlikely the water gets to the bottom of the groove to remove schmutz or remaining cleaning solution. I'm happy with the compromise.

Degritter does have tanks available as an option, so you could have a wash solution and rinse solution tank. You're still using the same ultrasonic cavity, however, and there's no good way to clean that out, so I think the better approach is to make sure the records are reasonably clean before they go in.

I've cleaned the filter on my Degritter about 6 times. The first time I freaked out as the filter looked brown and gross. I squeezed it and it changed color back to cream colored--the brown was due to the water in the pores of the filter. I do typically get a few chunks in the filter large enough to see with the eye, but not much small stuff that oozes out when I clean the filter under water. I'm still on my first filter (the unit came with several).
 
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tima

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Yes, it would be the same filter but 30 seconds or less to swap if you’re at that level of neurosis.

It's not about neurosis, it's about what is the best you can achieve given the type of technology you choose. Whether you choose to go that route is up to you, but it doesn't hurt to examine the potential of what you have.
 

tima

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I've got about 7 months and 300 records on my Degritter and am quite happy with it. I preclean all new-to-me records in a SpinClean using their solution and recommended concentration. I concur that even new records leave a lot of crud in my SpinClean tank, but it's mostly vinyl shreds.

I run 1/2 the recommended concentration of Degritter solution in the Degritter to minimize stuff left after drying. I figure it is a balance--no wetting agent and its unlikely the water gets to the bottom of the groove to remove schmutz or remaining cleaning solution. I'm happy with the compromise.

Degritter does have tanks available as an option, so you could have a wash solution and rinse solution tank. You're still using the same ultrasonic cavity, however, and there's no good way to clean that out, so I think the better approach is to make sure the records are reasonably clean before they go in.

I've cleaned the filter on my Degritter about 6 times. The first time I freaked out as the filter looked brown and gross. I squeezed it and it changed color back to cream colored--the brown was due to the water in the pores of the filter. I do typically get a few chunks in the filter large enough to see with the eye, but not much small stuff that oozes out when I clean the filter under water. I'm still on my first filter (the unit came with several).

Thanks for an interesting report!
 
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timztunz

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Apr 23, 2018
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Distilled water is dirt cheap, I change mine often and never allow water to remain in the tank for more than a week or so.

I still maintain my VPI 16.5 for 'pre-cleaning' when required, used Lp's , etc.
My 16.5 finally died and I replaced it with a Cyclone for the same duty. I change my Degritter cleaning water every 10-12 records because, like you said, distilled water is cheap and I think my bottle of Ilfotol will last forever at 1ml per tank. :)
 

exupgh12

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Jul 30, 2019
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By avoiding second hand LP's you are avoiding the best pressed records. Cleaned original pressings are far superior to any new pressing made today. Especially jazz and classical.
Your correct, but unless you know what your bu unless you know what your buying better stay clear from second hand LP’s
 

jeff1225

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Jan 29, 2012
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Your correct, but unless you know what your bu unless you know what your buying better stay clear from second hand LP’s
I would say that even more the case of new LP's as there are more questions that need to be answered:

1. Original Master Tapes?
2. All analog reproduction?
3. Who did the mastering and what did they do to the original mastering?
4. Was the original artist involved?
5. Where was it pressed?

I have several non-audiophile friends that belong to these record clubs. The packaging is fantastic, the titles are great, the pricing is high and the sound ABSOLUTELY SUCKS.
 

ACHiPo

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Feb 22, 2015
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Pleasanton, CA
Distilled water is dirt cheap, I change mine often and never allow water to remain in the tank for more than a week or so.

I still maintain my VPI 16.5 for 'pre-cleaning' when required, used Lp's , etc.
I also try to clump my cleaning sessions into a 7-10 day session before dumping. I have (by mistake) left water in for several weeks. There was no funky odor or any obvious growth, but I agree it's better to keep it fresh.

I watched enough videos of the Kirmuss method that convinced me that some physical scrubbing with a velvet brush (like the pads of the SpinClean) is a good thing (I'm still not convinced that alcohol belongs in record cleaning solution, though).
 

rDin

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Oct 28, 2019
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I'm using my Degritter as the final rinse/dryer in my cleaning chain, which starts with a vacuum RCM for debris removal/enzyme soak, a Kirmuss for IPA/water/surfactant cleaning and then Degritter. Note, I'm not using the Kirmuss Method - just using the Kirmuss machine.

I tend to wash in batches of 5 or 6 records, after which the water in the machines is too warm to continue.

Measuring with TDS meter I find that the Degritter water is always > 2ppm after that batch, and often higher, so I discard the water after every session to avoid rising chance of audible residue being left behind. The Kirmuss water will stay below 1ppm for a number of sessions after which I ditch it, so I drain that to bottles between sessions. I am probably being overly paranoid keeping with these low numbers but the water is very cheap to replace so why not?

A year or so ago I did a whole bunch of cleaning permutations including different surfactants and recorded the results for ABX testing on my computer to determine my best cleaning method (which Neil had quite some input too over on another forum).
 
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tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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unless you know what your buying better stay clear from second hand LP’s

That holds true for purchase of just about anything.

There are so many really fine recordings no longer in print. And there are quite a few reputable dealers. If you use Discogs for example, dealers are graded and so are records. And graded dealers do not like negative ratings. If you find a mismatch between a record grading and the actual record, most well-rated dealers are willing to work with you in order to avoid a negative grade on themselves. Or so I've found.

I will only buy highly graded used LPs (nothing below M-) from dealers who have a 99%+ rating. This is where a top-notch cleaning system really pays off. If a dealer offers to clean a record I decline. I've had many records turn out to be real gems with my own diy cleaning system. If you're into vinyl, a good cleaning system makes the used market much less of a gamble and it extends the viability of the medium. I suspect far more excellent recordings have already been made (especially pre-digital) than will ever be made in the future. This why I tell people who want to get into vinyl that a record cleaning system is a necessity, not an option to buy later.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,830
6,883
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the Upper Midwest
I'm using my Degritter as the final rinse/dryer in my cleaning chain, which starts with a vacuum RCM for debris removal/enzyme soak, a Kirmuss for IPA/water/surfactant cleaning and then Degritter. Note, I'm not using the Kirmuss Method - just using the Kirmuss machine.

It sounds time consuming but nice to see you have evolved!
 

nkjtbushwood

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2012
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I'm using my Degritter as the final rinse/dryer in my cleaning chain, which starts with a vacuum RCM for debris removal/enzyme soak, a Kirmuss for IPA/water/surfactant cleaning and then Degritter. Note, I'm not using the Kirmuss Method - just using the Kirmuss machine.

I tend to wash in batches of 5 or 6 records, after which the water in the machines is too warm to continue.

Measuring with TDS meter I find that the Degritter water is always > 2ppm after that batch, and often higher, so I discard the water after every session to avoid rising chance of audible residue being left behind. The Kirmuss water will stay below 1ppm for a number of sessions after which I ditch it, so I drain that to bottles between sessions. I am probably being overly paranoid keeping with these low numbers but the water is very cheap to replace so why not?

A year or so ago I did a whole bunch of cleaning permutations including different surfactants and recorded the results for ABX testing on my computer to determine my best cleaning method (which Neil had quite some input too over on another forum).
which fluids/surfactants and in what concentration do you use for each of the 3 steps?
 

rDin

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2019
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It sounds time consuming but nice to see you have evolved!
Once the "conveyer" is started records move from along from each machine relatively quickly. A normal session usually takes ~45 minutes depending on number of records. But a one record session is ~15 minutes with +6 minutes for each subsequent record.
 

rDin

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2019
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which fluids/surfactants and in what concentration do you use for each of the 3 steps?
1. Nitty Gritty Enzymes on the vacuum RCM then manually apply Ilfotol/glycol/water surfactant mix for stage 2
2. 2.5%IPA/water + surfactant from 1
3. water

The surfactant mix is, from memory, 2.5mL/L Ilfotol and a half a pipette of glycol into a 100mL spray bottle. This is then sprayed onto the surface of the record and brushed on before being put into the Kirmuss. This approach I took from the Kirmuss method as I got better results than simply adding surfactant to the Kirmuss bath.
 

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