Visit to Chris to See Magico M9 and VYGER and Pilium in Southlake, Texas

itay123 said:

I wasn't talking specifically to you, but in general,
I'm not really interested in your gear,
approach of determining and judging a result from a smartphone recording,
it's better not to say everything I have to say...

Click to expand...

Why be shy and bashful now? If you have something to say then say it.

bonzo75 said:

In person, would you have used those LPs that Ron used for audition, which you said lacked bass?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not.

XV-1 said:

Absolutely not.

Click to expand...

then why blame tire video? The video is showing the LP lacked bass. What you are blaming is the auditioning process of which LP to use. In room too, if people has been there and heard this LP, they would have had the same conclusion

This is Chris. Former Rhapsody.Audio DFW. I will start by saying my relationship with Bob in NYC has existed for about 10yrs. I think of him as a friend, business associate and confidant. My feelings have not changed in any way so any inclination or creative interpretation to the contrary is flat out wrong. I have decided to trek my own path while retaining some of the brands he distributes as well as some new lines, Those that I find emotionally engaging. My feelings on Hifi/audio reproduction or whatever you want to call it are somewhat different than most dealers or even forum members who will vehemently defend whatever brand they spent all of their savings on. My question to people who is visit is how does it make you feel? Are you connected to the music you love? If not, we move on to something else. There is no hard sell, no huge discounts to move product like a Best Buy. The money doesn't drive my decisions to be a dealer. I do not make my living doing this.....My reputation is more important than selling someone a new shiny box they can brag about behind a computer screen to their friends and enemies on these often ridiculous rabbit hole forums.

Regarding the video..... I will state firmly that no microphone someone is going to bring into my room will even get a sniff of the sound or feeling of using your ears and letting the music speak. Some people like videos to see cool stuff, some think its the be all, end all of a system, and some use them to attract buyers. That is their prerogative and who am I to argue. Just know that I personally do not want to be a part of it because it is not a remotely accurate portrayal of that moment in time.

Regarding Ron's video..... It was stated that this was a bad idea and that Alon does not endorse or agree with videos for most of the exact same reasons stated above. The fact that the whole thing was taken off axis, in strange positions to showcase the gear and nothing else doesn't help the portrayal. I told him to do an overdub but was told that it won't work. Whatever, it is what it is....... I have never heard a speaker of this level of resolution or ultimate capability. Is it my daily cup of tea? No. As it is almost too intense in the nature of feeling like you're at an IMAX theatre etc.. I listen to music to relax. I don't sit and dissect sound piece by piece or only listen to tracks that are "well recorded" or audiophile ridiculously replayed tracks. I don't care, I listen to what I like and customers have the freedom to listen to what they like in my establishment. The M9 is very sweet spot dependent to get close to the capability. They are not a planar that you can listen to in any part of the room because they don't sound anywhere near potential they're given the inherent design. To take a video off axis, never in the center image let alone the focal point is beyond pointless. To cap it off, we listened to records, some of which were pulled from my collection that were purchased for probably $1.00 10yrs ago out of the used bin.... By this point, 40 visitors into the weekend, I was too tired to really care. That falls on me. I take that responsibility. However, do not judge the sound possibilities of this room on a video taken with the intent to highlight the room and gear rather than the sound.

Anyone is welcome, any time, to visit and draw your own conclusions.

Chris. Now Euphoria HiFi. Located in Southlake TX. 7169824189

Rexp said:

So it is a hearing problem that these video deniers have, good to know. I was thinking it's down to faulty gear.

Click to expand...

It is simply a lack of imagination, the imagination that all the video proponents have in abundance !

itay123 said:

Absolutely right!

I have a feeling that, apparently - maybe,
people before they record their video ,
they (maybe) well "engineer" the sound with various external components like equalizers,
and then check several times if its well audible and make sure it sounds as if it's the closest to YouTube
just for the recording, and judging on people with expensive gear that they will probably will never have,
and pat themselves on the back, that here they supposedly have a result that is the closest to the "original" in their recording,
and in reality, sounds so terrible and horrible,
those people will never host people either,
unfortunately I have come across several

shame.

Click to expand...

Yes the proponents of digital manipulation would obviously do it with pride, its their selling point !

Sorry Al, I didn't mean to confuse you with Al. My mistake Al.

Lagonda said:

It is simply a lack of imagination, the imagination that all the video proponents have in abundance !

Click to expand...

So I'm guessing you can't hear a difference in this comparison?

Rexp said:

So I'm guessing you can't hear a difference in this comparison?

Click to expand...

Why would i even bother, product i have no interest in, compared to make a point, open to all kinds of manipulation ? I give videos no credit, other than to get a visual of the product.

Kingrex said:

Sorry Al, I didn't mean to confuse you with Al. My mistake Al.

Click to expand...

Which Al are you talking to? Al or Al?

Anyway, thanks, no problem .

I'm not saying a video is a substitute for listening in person. Or that a video will tell you if you like a particular type of musical presentation. We all know horns, planers, open baffle, box speakers present different. We know biamping and DSP also change what we hear. We know a SET sounds different than a SS amp. Any one persons particular preference to a type of sound is just that. A preference.

I am saying, using a video is a tool and a window into what a system is doing in a space. Using a standard track like Bonzo does (Mahler 2) and recording your own system to compare to others will provide a clear understanding how your equipment is voicing and what you may want to think about adressing if you want to improve or change your playback.

I am saying if you share a track of Mahler 2 and others listen, they can tell if the sound is dynamic, clean, separation of instruments, bass power and impact, mid cuping, haze, smear, frequency anomalies. There is a lot you can hear. There are some things you can not. But there is enough to get a general idea of what the system is doing, or not.

Just because someone setup does not present Mahler via a phone capture as well as the large horn system does not mean said system is inferior. Those with the horns will try and have you believe that. But the truth is, a ported box with a high power amp creates a different type of sound that many people like. In person, that large horn may be too much for everyday listening. You can also hear the volume in those video. Ite extremely high. Maybe over 100db. Its technically deafening. Playing that system at 76 db may be booring compared to a ported box that can be lush and full and fleshed out with harmonics that make it easy to relax and chill in front of. And a system attempting to achieve a sound like a large horn system that fails to get there, may be unlistenable. Wheres a system thats just trying to be pleasing at normal volume in a normal room can be very satisfying.

Whats missing from video shares is a standardized boxed speaker video of a system that is very pleasing playing Skynrd or Lord or Bruno Mars etc. Music normal people enjoy. I don't like Mahler myself. I don't like large scale symphony. So tuning to my system to play such music would be a waste. One of my favorite systems I personally owned and enjoyed the most was Sonus Faber Luito with CJ Premier 140 with Teflon. That stereo kicked butt. Would sound nothing like a video of horns. But it was engrossing and highly enjoyable in the room with it. It was also my wife's favorite. She is not has happy as when I had that.

Kingrex said:

. You can also hear the volume in those video. Ite extremely high. Maybe over 100db. Its technically deafening. Playing that system at 76 db may be booring compared to a ported box that can be lush and full and fleshed out with harmonics that make it easy to relax and chill in front of.

Click to expand...

sorry, you are mistaken maybe because you are new to this. None of those horns have to be played loudly though they can be played very loud, in the video they were not loud at all. They will sound less muted than others on video because their top and bottom drivers together are more coherent and and fall freely. There is no attenuation like with SS cones to be careful about not letting one driver bite your head off because it is a different sensitivity and impedance from the other.

the Altec and the Goto Altec on the Mahler thread, I can hear for hours at a stretch without any fatigue. Maybe the larger dynamic range gives an impression to you of greater loudness on videos

Al M. said:

Which Al are you talking to? Al or Al?

Anyway, thanks, no problem .

Click to expand...

Just joking around. I was refering to Al Rainbow. He uses video as a tool.

bonzo75 said:

sorry, you are mistaken maybe because you are new to this. None of those horns have to be played loudly though they can be played very loud, in the video they were not loud at all. They will sound less muted than others on video because their top and bottom drivers together are more coherent and and fall freely. There is no attenuation like with SS cones to be careful about not letting one driver bite your head off because it is a different sensitivity and impedance from the other.

Click to expand...

Are there any data on Sound Pressure Levels in the room during the capture?

Rexp said:

So I'm guessing you can't hear a difference in this comparison?

Click to expand...

I noticed something interesting in this video. When Ted is talking and has a lapel mic, the sound is what you would expect. A clean, natural, full human voice. When it switched to him getting ready to start the demo and he spoke, the capture of his voice is radically different. It is so different and of poor quality, it makes me scratch my head and wonder how that relates to what distortion the phone capture of the system is giving. Again, a reason I made multiple capture of my own system to get my bearing on what I was hearing.

Its also a validation the phone mic capture does not give a sense of what is in the room. The mic is very accuratly capturing changes in the system. And if your looking to shape a sound to a known direction, the reason I said we need a standardized capture of a well liked box speaker, then a phone capture is a great tool to compare and contrast with.

Kingrex said:

Are there any data on Sound Pressure Levels in the room during the capture?

Click to expand...

We occasionally take, it will usually be between 70 - 80 db for horns with some higher peaks. I remember one of the loudest we used to listen to was Bill's Focals with Krell and then Analog Domain and have hit 100. It used to be ear hurting on them. If you had to turn it up on your speakers for videos, that is different.

With all these horns, universum, altec, pnoe, etc I have many hours without fatigue. The swell, dynamic range, micro nuances and information, coherence is so high you don't need to turn it up to hear everything and turn it down again on loud passages. That is a failure. Did it on many cones.

Anyway we digress. There is a thread on low level listening where this has been covered.

Ron takes a passing video to validate his limited visit and the world descends into chaos ..!

Carry on ....!

Kingrex said:

Are there any data on Sound Pressure Levels in the room during the capture?

Click to expand...

my video recordings are usually between 75 and 85 dB. Perhaps my horns aren’t as big as the ones you were referring to.

bonzo75 said:

We occasionally take, it will usually be between 70 - 80 db for horns with some higher peaks. I remember one of the loudest we used to listen to was Bill's Focals with Krell and then Analog Domain and have hit 100. It used to be ear hurting on them. If you had to turn it up on your speakers for videos, that is different.

With all these horns, universum, altec, pnoe, etc I have many hours without fatigue. The swell, dynamic range, micro nuances and information, coherence is so high you don't need to turn it up to hear everything and turn it down again on loud passages. That is a failure. Did it on many cones.

Anyway we digress. There is a thread on low level listening where this has been covered.

Click to expand...

Whats the usual noise floor of the rooms ..?

Lagonda said:

Why would i even bother, product i have no interest in, compared to make a point, open to all kinds of manipulation ? I give videos no credit, other than to get a visual of the product.

Click to expand...

You did not bother to listen, yet are sure it’s of no value (or insinuating a deceitful manipulation by Denny)?

As someone who did listen, I can report the AB differences are impossible not to hear. If I were in the market for something like this, the video would be useful start in deciding whether to demo or not.