CH Precision 10 series
- Thread starter Elliot G.
- Start date
Wow. If I ever lusted after that speaker I don't any longer. I wonder what amps Wilson used in developing them.
Dear Ian,
Why would an impedance specification change your mind about a speaker you lust after, especially if you haven't even heard it yet, and the concern about the specification is merely theoretical?
I promise you that your CAT amps will drive the XVX absolutely beautifully!
If a 2 ohm loudspeaker specification were a theoretical deal-breaker for me I would never have enjoyed Martin-Logans for over 18 years.
I think Wilson uses D'Agostino amplifiers and VTL Siegfried IIs, among other amplifiers.
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Because 2ohm is just way too limiting. If M10s can't drive these speakers, my M1.1s probably won't.
If my M1.1s can't drive them then my CATs can't either.
In any case, it's a moot point as I'm pretty happy with my speakers these days.
I believe that's correct although we've seen Spectral on the floor of his home in many published pictures. They also use the Parasounds JC1+ for their subwoofers. (No surprise there).
I respectfully disagree. You are making wild assumptions based on a single technical specification.
If people made decisions based solely on this theoretical assumption instead of actual listening many people would've missed out for decades on loving MartinLogan speakers and Apogee speakers -- in many cases driven by tube amplifiers.
I think Ian‘s point is that those speakers are very limiting in terms of amplifier choice. Are you seeing such a specifications are not limiting? And even if many people like those panel speakers, they seem to be less popular these days.
Interesting thread. I think the moral of the story is that people should try these amps in their system to check "synergy" with their current equipment/ room AND whether the sound meets their tastes and preferences.
It's time to move to a new model: CH should have demos available to send to people - for a fee, if necessary, so they can hear for themselves rather than relying on opinions of others
It's time to move to a new model: CH should have demos available to send to people - for a fee, if necessary, so they can hear for themselves rather than relying on opinions of others
I agree that is Ian's point. But Ian's point is based on a purely theoretical assumption, and not on actual listening. Neither of you have heard the XVX. I have heard the speaker four times.
And to suggest that amplifier choice is "very limited" I think is a grossly over-broad exaggeration.
I personally think this hand-wringing discussion is premature because, as Marty wisely admonished elsewhere, it is based on a data set of one (1). (A data set of two (2) only if you include pk_LA's report, but I suspect that report may have been mostly because that system was set up in essentially a warehouse.)
So, from one audiophile's personal experience, are you and Ian concluding -- ears unheard -- that the XVX can be driven, effectively, only by Gryphon, Boulder and Soulution?
Peter, your line of analysis here is puzzling to me, because I think you typically critique others for this kind of purely theoretical, assumption-based triangulation.
I wish we could engineer an actual financial bet as to whether the top CAT amplifier would properly drive the XVX. I am extremely confident that it would.
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Only if Marty is the judge
Hahaha!
I would nominate as the judge my friend who actually owns the XVX. Currently, he drives them either with Einstein hybrid amplifiers or big McIntosh solid-state amplifiers. He may be getting the new McIntosh tube amplifiers, as well.
I bet 10 $$$
At that spending level i would want to have it both ways .
1 pair of memphistos / boulders and a pair of JL 7 s
At that spending level i would want to have it both ways .
1 pair of memphistos / boulders and a pair of JL 7 s
I was at the same event.
I expected the event to be like attending a show, which was NOT expecting too much. The space was huge, speakers were well away from the walls, and there were 25 to 30 bodies around to absorb sound. Yes the big system sounded bass-shy to me as well at the time, but I really would not conclude that's how Wadax/L10/M10/Stenheim will sound at home. FWIW I thought the vinyl demo sounded better and more balanced than digital.
legendary for bass old yamaha pcm 5002 series.
don't laugh you would be surprised what a good sound comes out of it. Stable like a tank at 2ohms over 1kw.
a gryphon has to work hard to be better
Hello Ron,
By the amplifier choice as "very limited" I mean that I assume one must use only very high powered amplifiers, either SS or tube, to hear the potential of these XVX speakers. That alone is a deal killer for me because of the sound of high powered amplifiers.
I personally don't care if this is in fact hand-wringing or not, or if it is premature. It is what it is on a forum discussion based on one member's personal experience with the amplifiers. One data point is enough to have the discussion and raise questions. We are all free to agree or disagree based on whatever experience we have. From what I recall of Marty's thread, he shared his experience and there was not in fact much disagreement. Afterall, he simply related his experience. It's a bit hard to disagree with that.
I have no idea if the XVX can be effectively driven only by Gryphon, Boulder or Solution. Nor did I ever imply or state such a thing. What does "effectively" mean, and by whose standards?
My analysis is based only on the comment by someone that the Wilson XVX is a nominal 2 ohm load. That is not a minimum load, but a nominal load. That is low. I presume from that spec alone, that it is not a very easy speaker to drive and thus requires high powered amplifiers. That makes it quite limiting. I don't know how limiting, but I have read reports of other difficult to drive speakers that had only a very few amplifier choices. There is no triangulation going on here. Simply a spec and my reaction to that spec.
Engineering such a bet would require a great deal of subjectivity necessitated by your use of the word "properly". Define the word and tell me how you would go about knowing if others' definition is the same as yours.
We all have our preferences. You like tubes and panels and warm cartridges (and analog) for girl with guitar type music. I like easier to drive speakers than ones presenting a nominal load of 2 ohms. These days I prefer extremely easy to drive speakers. Sure, I might enjoy the sound of a system that includes the Wilson XVX, not saying I wouldn't. I'm just agreeing with Ian, that I strongly suspect that I would not want to own such a speaker. Ian sounded even more certain. I fully admit I have not heard it and I know full well that you consider it your favorite cone type speaker.
A little birdie told me that there me be something in writing coming out soon that may address this subject further.....
BTW I just listened to the Spielberg movie West Side Story Soundtrack and its wonderful. Check it out
BTW I just listened to the Spielberg movie West Side Story Soundtrack and its wonderful. Check it out
What am I missing here? Who said the M10's can't drive the XVX? Certainly not Harley who apparently thinks they do a good job. I think its worth repeating... the Alexx V is NOT the XVX. If you look at their impedance curves, they do in fact differ a bit. How this manifests in "driveability" of each with M10's, I have no idea.
Alexx V
XVX
The more significant measurement is EPDR, calculated from the impedance for both the XVX and the AlexxV in the Stereophile reviews. Both speakers are very though loads, considering that the XVX is 1 dB more efficient than the AllexV they are very similar in effective terms of current needs.
IMHO the room gain dissimilarity between the different rooms used for these CH listening prevent us from any generalization. The same speaker power needs are very different in different rooms - and sometimes large rooms need less power ...
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