78!
david
Stored energy increases with the square of the rotational speed - is the AS2000 certified to be safe at such high energy?
I imagine that stopping the platter by hand can release a lot of heat in your fingers!
American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)
- Thread starter ddk
- Start date
Stored energy increases with the square of the rotational speed - is the AS2000 certified to be safe at such high energy?
I imagine that stopping the platter by hand can release a lot of heat in your fingers!
OMG this thread is priceless!
David, PLEASE name your next table the Double Entendre
David, PLEASE name your next table the Double Entendre
@ddk. You should get this album to show how natural nuances can come from your tt. In fact every one should have this album. The performance is great and the sound is awesome.
Kind regards,
Tang
Kind regards,
Tang
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You have inspired me Tango !@ddk. You should get this album to show how natural nuances can come from your tt. In fact every one should have this album. The performance is great and the sound is awesome.
View attachment 49675
@audioquattr. I cant help not teasing you man. You havent heard your Zeta until you hear them with the Lamm.
Kind regards,
Tang
More Piano Music
You have inspired me Tango !
More Piano Music
I hope this vid is for those legs and nothing else
Just admiring her foot work, I am sure she can drive a stick shift, not just an automatic like most girlsI hope this vid is for those legs and nothing else
This past day we heard many comments and speculations about top notch tts. I am fortunate to own a few. My listening time is on average five hours a day when I go to work. I kept switching tuning my cart/arm/tt just like PeterA (but not the vta though). It is my thing. I "live" with my tts and actually spend moretime listening than working these days. Gian once asked me if I ever work. I do. My company will grow faster, my compettitors will get more headache, if I spend 50% less time on audio, but I wont enjoy life as much as I am now.
Anyway. What I like to say is in reality, some tts are just "better" than the others. There are cases where saying "sound best upon preference" just cannot really apply because some tts are just "better." It is not about preference. Just like when people say tape sound better than this and that. In my system, the AS2000 is a better tt than the AF1P if we all put highest value on the reproduction sound nearest to recording venue, fool you real. I could start the day listening to the AF1P and fully enjoy the whole day til go home at 4pm...but Just dont switch to the AS2000. If during the day, I switch to AS2000, I will end up ending my day with the AS2000. It just draws me in. The best I could describe the sound difference between the two is the AS just sounds more real. Please dont be black and white interpretting I said AF1P cannot reproduce sound close to real. It could. But we are in a hobby of getting sound reproduction nearest to real. So what I am saying is in degree the sound from AS2000 fools me real more than the AF1P. There are threads discussing what contributes to fool you real sensation. We can go look at those attributes and the AS2000 has a lot of those. The AF1P has excellent dynamic, "exciting" sound stage, super details, super quiet, etc. But what is missing that make the AS2000 present the sounds with even less exciting sound stage than the AF1 but sounds more real. I am certain that Nishigawa San has his answer in the Zero otherwise there wouldntbe a Zero at the first place. If the Zero retains the gooness of AF1 plus increase the degree of fool you real, then some people could "prefer" the Zero to the AS2000.
Kindest regards,
Tang
Anyway. What I like to say is in reality, some tts are just "better" than the others. There are cases where saying "sound best upon preference" just cannot really apply because some tts are just "better." It is not about preference. Just like when people say tape sound better than this and that. In my system, the AS2000 is a better tt than the AF1P if we all put highest value on the reproduction sound nearest to recording venue, fool you real. I could start the day listening to the AF1P and fully enjoy the whole day til go home at 4pm...but Just dont switch to the AS2000. If during the day, I switch to AS2000, I will end up ending my day with the AS2000. It just draws me in. The best I could describe the sound difference between the two is the AS just sounds more real. Please dont be black and white interpretting I said AF1P cannot reproduce sound close to real. It could. But we are in a hobby of getting sound reproduction nearest to real. So what I am saying is in degree the sound from AS2000 fools me real more than the AF1P. There are threads discussing what contributes to fool you real sensation. We can go look at those attributes and the AS2000 has a lot of those. The AF1P has excellent dynamic, "exciting" sound stage, super details, super quiet, etc. But what is missing that make the AS2000 present the sounds with even less exciting sound stage than the AF1 but sounds more real. I am certain that Nishigawa San has his answer in the Zero otherwise there wouldntbe a Zero at the first place. If the Zero retains the gooness of AF1 plus increase the degree of fool you real, then some people could "prefer" the Zero to the AS2000.
Kindest regards,
Tang
I have been listening to the AS2000 close to a year now. A friend in wbf pm'ed me asking what I think of this tt in comparison to my AF1P. The following is what I wrote to him. I hope he does not mind I put this on public. My comment is only based on the sound of what I hear in my system. In other system it could be different. My good friend and also my audio mentor, Gian, always tells me in audio even if your are so sure, you cannot be so sure. Too many variables when we talk audio. Hearing preferences are also diverse. Apologize for my bad English.
"It depends on how you would like to listen to music. The AF1P organizes sound for you. It sounds very very nice and exciting. Most of the time more exciting than the AS. Stage is always wider. Instruments are nicely laid out or spread out. AS could sound more like instruments stand closer together. It even sounds more evenly dynamic than the AS2000. More immersive too. Heavier stronger bass too. These are characters or footprints of AF1P.
The AS2000 does not seem to have pattern of characters. Its character is a no-character character. You will hear different records more differently. You play one record you think AS2000 has no bass. But then you play another record all of a sudden you get this bass slam. You listen for a while you will realize the bass comes from the recording itself...as how it was in the record...differently. The same thing I described applies to sound stage, dynamic, etc. At beginning I thought the AS sound stage is inferior. Then I played another record and I was wow by how wide and immersive the sound came out. If two different records are remastered by the same process you will hear that pattern of sound on the two records quite easily too. Music seems more real and musical because the AS exhibits more contrast. The transparency of this tt is phenomenal. You will hear more. It is the nuance king. This tt changed my way of hearing reproduced music. It seems to have changed Christian too."
I prefer not writing any particular aspect in specific because at this level of tt they stand head and shoulder aligned. For example, People like to say how quiet a tt is. I think quiet is easy to make since I finds all tts I own so damn quiet. Kronos can play extremely quiet. Vinyl itself determines quietness imo. So difference of tts in my view is on characters. You cant get the characters of each tt it means you havent understood it.
On practical side of things. The AS2000 is very bullet proof. I find it as reliable as the 927. I only had one incident with it when the lube under the platter splashed because I put too much in at the first place. Everything is easy fix even a lazy person like me can do it...well with a few strong guys help lifting. I say this and David hear it would go crazy at me. When I couldnt get some lp's through the spindle I actually used my fist banged on the vinyl to flat out on the platter. The AS can take the beating..hehe. The setup is also the easiest and most simple of any tts I found. Easy set and forget. I did not need David to do it for me. He came to teach me how to set up the cart and 3012r so that I could hear the AS at its full potential.
Kindest regards,
Tang
"It depends on how you would like to listen to music. The AF1P organizes sound for you. It sounds very very nice and exciting. Most of the time more exciting than the AS. Stage is always wider. Instruments are nicely laid out or spread out. AS could sound more like instruments stand closer together. It even sounds more evenly dynamic than the AS2000. More immersive too. Heavier stronger bass too. These are characters or footprints of AF1P.
The AS2000 does not seem to have pattern of characters. Its character is a no-character character. You will hear different records more differently. You play one record you think AS2000 has no bass. But then you play another record all of a sudden you get this bass slam. You listen for a while you will realize the bass comes from the recording itself...as how it was in the record...differently. The same thing I described applies to sound stage, dynamic, etc. At beginning I thought the AS sound stage is inferior. Then I played another record and I was wow by how wide and immersive the sound came out. If two different records are remastered by the same process you will hear that pattern of sound on the two records quite easily too. Music seems more real and musical because the AS exhibits more contrast. The transparency of this tt is phenomenal. You will hear more. It is the nuance king. This tt changed my way of hearing reproduced music. It seems to have changed Christian too."
I prefer not writing any particular aspect in specific because at this level of tt they stand head and shoulder aligned. For example, People like to say how quiet a tt is. I think quiet is easy to make since I finds all tts I own so damn quiet. Kronos can play extremely quiet. Vinyl itself determines quietness imo. So difference of tts in my view is on characters. You cant get the characters of each tt it means you havent understood it.
On practical side of things. The AS2000 is very bullet proof. I find it as reliable as the 927. I only had one incident with it when the lube under the platter splashed because I put too much in at the first place. Everything is easy fix even a lazy person like me can do it...well with a few strong guys help lifting. I say this and David hear it would go crazy at me. When I couldnt get some lp's through the spindle I actually used my fist banged on the vinyl to flat out on the platter. The AS can take the beating..hehe. The setup is also the easiest and most simple of any tts I found. Easy set and forget. I did not need David to do it for me. He came to teach me how to set up the cart and 3012r so that I could hear the AS at its full potential.
Kindest regards,
Tang
Dear Tang,
Thank you for taking the time and sharing your experience! I've owned and own many fine turntables that some would say are the best of the best and one thing that they all have in common is a flavor, character, coloration or as you mentioned an obvious footprint including my beloved EMT 927. The AS2000 was designed with the idea that no footprint is the best footprint and there's none. As you very correctly noted AS2000 doesn't impose any character of it's own nor will it hinder what's on the recordings, the AS2000 retrieves every nuance and detail hidden in those amazing grooves in all it's glory or crappiness as the case may be. This the ethos of Nothing; nothing added and nothing taken away. This is why I discuss sound quality in degrees or naturalness rather than anything else. IMO the most natural and realistic musical experiences are from equipment with little or no obvious footprint as I'm sure you've experienced even more since you got your Lamms
!The AS2000 is a pure minimalist design, it's main body is two pieces of solid stainless steel, you literally drop the platter on the base, add a belt and push a couple of buttons and you're business. There's absolutely nothing mechanical that can ever break down and the electronics were designed to be field serviceable by most users or an average technician, so yes I don't travel to assemble the turntable. I get great pleasure and satisfaction meeting fellow audiophiles this is the first reason for traveling to each AS2000 home, the other reason is that in order to get the most from a turntable the tonearm/cartridge setup is critical and even more so to a turntable the caliber of AS2000. This is something that I bring along with my turntable and share the knowledge with new owners so they can get the most satisfaction and pleasure. I'm honored to have met Tang, Christian and others and spent a little time knowing them.
david
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IMO the most natural and realistic musical experiences are from equipment with little or no obvious footprint as I'm sure you've experienced even more since you got your Lamms
Lamm is another interesting datapoint I want to write when my thoughts are fully crystalized. Hope you don't mind I put it in this thread...after all you are the one who reconstructed my system.
Tang
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Tang, would you say the AS2000 makes vinyl noise sound more like a seperate existing sound from the music, than the AF1 does?
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Thanks Tang for your one year update. Have you played the SME 3012R and the Opus or VdH on both tables? I'm trying to get a sense of whether or not the sound characteristics you describe are attributable to the table only or rather to some combination of table/arm/cartridge.
Also, you describe the AF1P as having a super wide soundstage. Are there any instances where the same recording has a wider soundstage on the AS2000? It seems as though there are more distinctions between various recordings when played on the AS2000 than there when played on the AF1P. That would imply to me that the AS2000 is a more transparent component contributing less to the overall sound, as long as this is based on the same cartridge/arm/phono being used.
I love the simplicity of the AS2000 design. Congratulations to David for the product and to Tang and Christian as lucky owners.
Also, you describe the AF1P as having a super wide soundstage. Are there any instances where the same recording has a wider soundstage on the AS2000? It seems as though there are more distinctions between various recordings when played on the AS2000 than there when played on the AF1P. That would imply to me that the AS2000 is a more transparent component contributing less to the overall sound, as long as this is based on the same cartridge/arm/phono being used.
I love the simplicity of the AS2000 design. Congratulations to David for the product and to Tang and Christian as lucky owners.
I have played the two carts on both tables but not the arm. I never played the SME on the Techdas. I do think that the SME has the characteristics resemblance to the AS2000 meaning less pronounce on any particular frequency or aspect of sound. So their sonic philosophy go in line.
I think the AS is more transparent to recording. But we are talking to the last degree here. So Techdas can convey recording messages so well too ... with more trace of signature. The bass and sound presentation (stage) are noticeable traces. I did not tell Bonzo what to hear but he caught it too. I heard in my system. He heard in various systems. His description on it just sounded more arrogant than mine. Peter, Thomas Mayer wrote something to describe the sound of his products. He said this about sound stage and it reflected the same way I view too.
"Over the years sound stage lost importance for me. I don’t even have to sit in the sweet spot to enjoy a system. Nevertheless I get excellent feedback for my amps and preamps for their ability to throw a spacious and realistic sound stage."
He also said this which I totally got from my system and the AS gives a big contribution to the chain.
"one of the most important aspects for me is tone color. Since I was a child tones and numbers always had colors for me. Whenever I hear a sound I see some colors in my mind. And I want my equipment to reproduce colors in all their richness. I often read somewhere that a system has pitch black and dry bass reproduction. This is not my goal. Bass never is black but always has some color from all tones of brown through shades of grey and midnight blue to almost (but never really reaching) black. Also for me bass is not supposed to be dry, I want my bass juicy and wet. Dry is boring. Also the background should never be pitch black. Good recordings can capture the ambience of the venue at which the performance took place and a good system can reproduce that. It gives a feeling of the air and space between the sounds."
Techdas has tendency to clean up sound. Its quietness also tend to lead to space dark. Sorry. My answer to you is vague and also lead to other things not directly relate to your question. But when we head for that last few degree everything else is all related and contributed. Mayer's statements just reflect many aspects of my system and it started from the AS2000.
Kind regards,
Tang
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I did not quite understand your question Folsom so I was afraid to reply.
Anyway, both AF1P and the AS2000 are the same in term of distinguishing surface noise of a record from the musical content. You hear the surface noise and you know it is not part of what was recorded. I am just throwing out answer here...dont know if it answer your question.
Kind regards,
Tang
That does, thank you. Don't be afraid to ask for clarification - there's always a good chance I butcher a question.
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