I don't understand the question either. I listen to the Vyger, the brinkmann, and a 124 frequently and hear surface noise when present separately from music. But I still do not understand the question or what different things I am supposed to hear
American Sound AS-2000 Installations- Far East (Tango)
- Thread starter ddk
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On my different turntables (not the league of Tang's collection) I can hear different surface noise. I prefer the "sound of surface noise" on vacuum platters, preferable with guns metal platters, as with Micro Seiki or TechDAS. The surface noice gets more dark. On my other turntables the surface noise is with more energy in the middle of the spectrum, may be more close to the resonance of the vinyl as such.
The surface noice on my TechDAS AF3P is from that perspective less prominent and less interfering with the music as such.
But I like say, this is just my personal taste.
It could be possible (and I strongly believe this) that with better tables (like with Tang) the difference becomes minor.
The question is not whether you can distinctly hear the surface noise onto itself, but the timbrel quality of it. Does the vinyl noise sound as though it could be from a different speakers? I find most stereos impart a fairly similar character onto the vinyl noise that is found within the music as well. It can make the vinyl noise sound softer so it's not in itself necessarily a bad thing, but does indicate other things that people may or may not like as much.
Interesting observation from you Shakti. I never really paid attention to notice the different surface noises from different platters. Could be so like you said especially from vacuum hold down vs. non vacuum. The surface noise I find is also influenced by cart. Please let me know if I am confused with something else but for example I find the Opus1 run quieter than the Master Sig. on the same vinyl. The same groove noise and click pop are more pronounced with the Master Sig. Too bad I already took SAT out of my AS2000 other wise I could do a test on the different platter of AF1 and AS2000.
You guys are very good at noticing things I never thought about. You are CSI germany Shakti. This is fun...and crazy.
Kind regards,
Tang
Currently I can compare Air Tight PC-1 to vdh Master Signature and I totally agree to your observation.
Regarding surface noise The Air Tight body runs more quiet than the open vdh body, also the "colour" of the noise is slightly different.
That might be the reason, that I prefer the Master Signature on vacuum platters too, as click pops and surface noice seem to be more damped,
than with the platters of my other tables (using the old thin Micro Seiki leather mat on a solid steel platter).
Just another observation. I do use my record cleaning device (clearaudio double matrix) prior every listening session
(the clearaudio has a speed program, both sides in around 60 to 70 seconds)
There will be always a little bit remaining fluid on the record (not visible), but this makes the surface noice much softer and lower in db and reduces clock pops as well.
Regarding surface noise The Air Tight body runs more quiet than the open vdh body, also the "colour" of the noise is slightly different.
That might be the reason, that I prefer the Master Signature on vacuum platters too, as click pops and surface noice seem to be more damped,
than with the platters of my other tables (using the old thin Micro Seiki leather mat on a solid steel platter).
Just another observation. I do use my record cleaning device (clearaudio double matrix) prior every listening session
(the clearaudio has a speed program, both sides in around 60 to 70 seconds)
There will be always a little bit remaining fluid on the record (not visible), but this makes the surface noice much softer and lower in db and reduces clock pops as well.
I have a theory that the surface noise difference between an Opus 1 and a Master Sig is (in part) due to the type of stylus used in each.
The Opus 1 uses a semi-line contact stylus, 3?m ×30?m.
The vdH cartridges typically have the proprietary van den Hul Type 1s, 2?m x 85?m
Surface noise may also possibly be a function of relative record cleanliness and alignment. Ralph Karsten will tell you that surface noise may also be a function of the phonostage.
The Opus 1 uses a semi-line contact stylus, 3?m ×30?m.
The vdH cartridges typically have the proprietary van den Hul Type 1s, 2?m x 85?m
Surface noise may also possibly be a function of relative record cleanliness and alignment. Ralph Karsten will tell you that surface noise may also be a function of the phonostage.
I have the same experience regarding surface noise when comparing my AirTight Supreme and VdH Colibri. The pops/clicks are slightly duller and more subdued with the Supreme. They seem slightly sharper, more pronounced and "brighter" with the VdH. The styli shapes are quite different and mounted at different angles relative to the cantilever.
Ever since my tt has started singing (OTT isolation from floor, better setup of cart, lighter armwand), surface noise feels "detached" from the music, resulting in greater ability to tune out of it.
I can’t for the life of me hear this surface noise you’re talking about. Am I missing something
You are lucky to have the Aqua space shuttle transport you out of this world...to the pitch dark space Blue.
Tang
Tang, do you use SME headshells on all your 3012R arms? I am referring to the ones where the cartridge location isn’t adjustable.
If so, when you change headshells/cartridges do you go through the alignment process again? Just curious since I have a 3012R arm as well.
Maybe you don’t have to do this since you have 4 arms!
If so, when you change headshells/cartridges do you go through the alignment process again? Just curious since I have a 3012R arm as well.
Maybe you don’t have to do this since you have 4 arms!
Following up on that question, Tang, have you used any of the Yamamura headshells (in titanium, carbon fiber, African Blackwood, etc.) that Jeffrey_T uses?
I do use only SME headshell on all my 3012R arms. I go through alignment process again when changing cart. I dont play around with head shell because I am already happy with the sound I get from the original one. I also have quite a few types of screws but I dont screw around
. I use whatever screws that come with the cart. Kind regards,
Tang
I do use only SME headshell on all my 3012R arms. I go through alignment process again when changing cart. I dont play around with head shell because I am already happy with the sound I get from the original one. I also have quite a few types of screws but I dont screw around
Kind regards,
Tang
Tang, I would have thought Dietrich would have tried to get you to use his headshell on the 3102R. It is something you should try for your own curiosity and ours
I did XV. I was using it with GFS on one of my 3012R. I did not think there was anything better. Dietrich is one designer who met me quite often but never pushed me to anything or try to convince me that his equipments are better. He is more of an engineer and likes to talk about technical stuff. He could impress the hell out of Micro if they talk.Tang, I would have thought Dietrich would have tried to get you to use his headshell on the 3102R. It is something you should try for your own curiosity and ours
Tang
(...) He is more of an engineer and likes to talk about technical stuff. He could impress the hell out of Micro if they talk.
Tang
Well, fortunately I can say the same of 95% of the good technical people with whom I talk ...
But high-end audio design is more an art of managing techncial compromises and understanding people preferences than science - and designers never want to debate with depth such challenging subjects. I can explain and discuss why Panzerholt is used for stopping neutrons but no one can explain me scientifcally why some pople in this forum love its sound and others hate it ...
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