Done with digital

[Joe Whip]

So true Kal, far too many equate their beliefs with truth. True for them maybe, but not me.

 

[Al M.]

Referring only to classical music.
If you solely listen to analogue, you're missing ~3.5 decades of great classical music performances and recordings.
Very few were pressed on vinyl (digital master, of course), and those that were sound better on digital playback.

I don't intend to give up on digital, no sir.

Indeed. I understand the longing for recordings from a purported golden age in the 50s and 60s, but I disagree that there are not equally good -- just different -- or, dare I say, at times better performances on modern recordings. And some with stellar sound quality.

What is more, apart from the classics like Bach, Beethoven, Haydn, Schubert and so on, I listen to *a lot* of modern classical music by composers from the second half of the 20th century until now. Almost all of it is only available on digital. That includes the incredible music of Stockhausen, of which I now enjoy live performances during 10 days of the Stockhausen summer courses in Kuerten, Germany. I could *never* give up on that!

And of course, you have modern jazz as well, which is important to me too.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Indeed. I understand the longing for recordings from a purported golden age in the 50s and 60s, but I disagree that there are not equally good -- just different -- or, dare I say, at times better performances on modern recordings. And some with stellar sound quality.

I think he is referring to the most recent " ~3.5 decades of great classical music performances and recordings," none of which are available analog/vinyl format. (Well, hardly any, at least.) Thus, abjuring digital would be a significant loss.

 

[iaxel]

I think he is referring to the most recent " ~3.5 decades of great classical music performances and recordings," none of which are available analog/vinyl format. (Well, hardly any, at least.) Thus, abjuring digital would be a significant loss.

Exactly. Late 1980s till today.

 

[sbo6]

you would only be surprised if the A B A is a new thing. i do it every day all the time. my digital <-> vinyl compares are a permanent part of my listening. and there is a consistent hierarchy; yet i embrace both for what they are and can be. i prefer both.

I'd wager for the vast majority A B A IS a new thing in terms of implementing into their audio comparisons. I also do A B A when I make comparisons, you and I are in the minority.

 

[sbo6]

Unfortunately there are no scientific tests that can be carried in this hobby, unless we decide to dedicate all our life to this hobby. Some people will disagree with me, but I find that A-B-A is not a proper test in the high-end.

Why do you believe performing A B A needs to be a carried out to the point of dedicating your life to it? A bit extreme IMO. How about, for example - you get a new cable, you have someone switch cable A and B and A and you listen and write down your observations and try to pick each?

 

[rando]

I think he is referring to the most recent " ~3.5 decades of great classical music performances and recordings," none of which are available analog/vinyl format. (Well, hardly any, at least.) Thus, abjuring digital would be a significant loss.

Not to mention the decades of sub-par analog releases.
Many of which found new life after digital mastering.
Quad recorded at a level far exceeding period capabilities being one of the more notable examples.

 

[microstrip]

Why do you believe performing A B A needs to be a carried out to the point of dedicating your life to it? A bit extreme IMO. How about, for example - you get a new cable, you have someone switch cable A and B and A and you listen and write down your observations and try to pick each?

I need a lot of time and listening to several types of recordings to properly evaluate gear. BTW, slavery was abolished in my country more than 300 years ago!

Curious that some - not all surely - A B A fans always refer to cables, expecting naive people to fall in the trap because apparently is a simple experiment to carry and provides an immediate humiliation.

 

[facten]

Long thread about nothing but personal preference. That's OK unless/until preference is confused with and promoted as truth.
(N.B.: I am not promoting my prefences as truth.)

Well said, happens too frequently. Sit back, listen and emerse yourself in the music , whatever format you enjoy. The rest is nothing but noise

 

[Al M.]

I think he is referring to the most recent " ~3.5 decades of great classical music performances and recordings," none of which are available analog/vinyl format. (Well, hardly any, at least.) Thus, abjuring digital would be a significant loss.

Agreed, but it seems many die-hard vinylphiles these days often seem to focus on this purported golden age of performance of the 50s and 60s and proclaim it was the best.

They implicitly use it as a defense for not having to bother with more modern recordings, especially the ones only available in digital.

 

[Thomas 911]

Digital is like Karajan,....Coca Cola for the masses,... analog is like celibidache..
I Outsourced CD Player from Main gear,...... Listen via headphone in a separate rroom..
Thus my System is pure analog....reduced to the max..

 

[Atmasphere]

Not intending to be condescending. But "confirmation bias" is the default objectivist response to people who say they hear differences among audio devices and as such is an insult to the intelligence of audiophiles who have spent decades honing their critical listening skills. Confirmation bias exists in the world. For me it is not the automatic fallback explanation for differences you can't explain.

Confirmation bias works both ways. That's the bit that makes it tricky.

 

[sbo6]

I need a lot of time and listening to several types of recordings to properly evaluate gear. BTW, slavery was abolished in my country more than 300 years ago!

Curious that some - not all surely - A B A fans always refer to cables, expecting naive people to fall in the trap because apparently is a simple experiment to carry and provides an immediate humiliation.

I think you may be missing the criteria for A B A which does not necessarily need to be time intensive. Also one might argue if you need extended listening to be able to hear a difference, is there really a difference?

Also, my cable example was simply one that I did recently, it could have as easily been an upsampling filter, a subwoofer settings, etc.

 

[tima]

Long thread about nothing but personal preference. That's OK unless/until preference is confused with and promoted as truth.

Yes. Your preference is your truth. You are the sole proof of your own preference. No one else can prove your preference to you.

 

[microstrip]

I think you may be missing the criteria for A B A which does not necessarily need to be time intensive. Also one might argue if you need extended listening to be able to hear a difference, is there really a difference?

Sorry I am not interested in the blind test A B A discussions - I know how they end!

Also, my cable example was simply one that I did recently, it could have as easily been an upsampling filter, a subwoofer settings, etc.

If you really got statistically significant results in properly carried cable blind tests IMHO we must congratulate you.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

my approach to A B A is not so hair shirt. and i'm not looking to prove anything. i don't listen critically.

i simply go back and forth between turntables and digital for hours, then do it again the next day, and the next. after a decade or two certain patterns immerge. and when my digital changes the patterns alter. when the vinyl changes patterns alter.

nothing so subtle really. just living life. taking both digital and vinyl seriously.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Yes. Your preference is your truth. You are the sole proof of your own preference. No one else can prove your preference to you.

No one need prove your preference to you. OTOH, it might be possible for someone to disprove your preference to you depending on the basis for the preference and the tools available. Otherwise, the preference is just evidence of a closed mind.

 

[tima]

No one need prove your preference to you. OTOH, it might be possible for someone to disprove your preference to you depending on the basis for the preference and the tools available. Otherwise, the preference is just evidence of a closed mind.

Kal, I am unclear about what you are saying. Are you suggesting there can be a disjunction between basis of preference and an instance of preference? Are you suggesting that someone can prove that I don't really like what I think I like? Or that I can be confused about what I like?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I am saying that preference can and should be influenced by new experiences.

 

[sbo6]

Sorry I am not interested in the blind test A B A discussions - I know how they end!

FWIW, I'm not one to be hard - scientific results only, I use all tools at my disposal. I think this is one of the shortfalls in our hobby, everyone seems to be hard science (presumed objective) or hard subjective. Both can be used in tandem and can be quite valuable. In any case, happy listening!