Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

[bazelio]

You should learn microspeak. It cleans up the power so you don't need power cable to do it.

OK, so this is power filtering.

EDIT: Actually let's leave it at that. It is otherwise not relevant to cables.

 

[microstrip]

By the way, could you elaborate on this, please? I'm not sure what you mean by "highly filtered Lamms".

Lamm's are fitted with elaborate industrial power supply filters. From their web site : "All LAMM models are equipped with internally built power line filters of high quality. " See this photo of the ML3 power supply:

 

[microstrip]

Filtering holds true for each Lamm phonostage and preamp.

View attachment 87564

LAMM – Quite simply the world's best audio electronics

Yes. But this type of filtering, using several inductors in series with power and tuned sections will interfere with many types of power cables. IMHO it is why opinions on the power cables formulated with Lamm equipment are particular to such equipment and probably can not be generalized. BTW, there are more cases of such behavior - I only referred to Lamm because I own them.

 

[twitch]

What is a "biased subjective opinion"? And what's the alternative? What does it have to do with the cost of the gear in question? Are your opinions of what your own gear/system sounds like biased? Subjective? Is there such a thing as an objective opinion? A subjective unbiased opinion? Not clear what point you are trying to make.

to start .........

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/subjective-vs-objective-information-explained#what-is-subjective-information

So, my subjective opinion is first and foremost rooted in objective facts to which I believe in. As for trying other cabling, yes, years back I experimented with the likes of MIT, Shunyata to name a few and while they performed admirably they did so no better than what I have now. To that I realized that real benefits are best found with maximizing ones speakers and room interactions for optimal sound.

I fully understand that in the end this is a hobby. One in which you're free to do what you like, so for me I'd rather listen to music than cables !

 

[microstrip]

to start .........

https://www.masterclass.com/articles/subjective-vs-objective-information-explained#what-is-subjective-information

So, my subjective opinion is first and foremost rooted in objective facts to which I believe in. As for trying other cabling, yes, years back I experimented with the likes of MIT, Shunyata to name a few and while they performed admirably they did so no better than what I have now. To that I realized that real benefits are best found with maximizing ones speakers and room interactions for optimal sound.

I fully understand that in the end this is a hobby. One in which you're free to do what you like, so for me I'd rather listen to music than cables !

A very limited view on subjective and objective, ignoring how they can merge. Most time people use the words objective as being synomymous of technical or measurement, something it is not completely true.

 

[twitch]

A very limited view on subjective and objective, ignoring how they can merge. Most time people use the words objective as being synomymous of technical or measurement, something it is not completely true.

very nice, enjoy your wire ...........

 

[PeterA]

Tim,
Can we know what cables you are currently using?

This is an interesting question. Does it matter, and if so, why? As soon as one mentions a brand, many will imagine all sorts of things. I know I do based on what I have heard in cable comparisons in my own system and elsewhere. Most wires that I have heard add a very distinct signature which often influences strongly the sound of the system. As Tima writes, it is hard to know what the wires do until you change them.

Except for my SME NOS phono cables and Ching Cheng power cords, I don't even know what cables are in my system, so I could not even answer the question you asked Tim if I wanted to. My wires came with the gear when it was shipped to me. I had a different IC from preamp to amp because it was quite long. It sounded great in my old system, and I thought pretty good in my new system. DDK came to fine tune the new system and listened. He then inserted a new long IC. The sound instantly became more balanced, and I heard more information presented naturally. We both knew that cable sounded right. Importantly, it did not have that distinct signature that I so often associate with so many wires I've heard. My wires are cheap, and likely no longer readily available.

People keep what sounds right to them in their systems. Exposure and keeping an open mind helped me a lot.

 

[microstrip]

This is an interesting question. Does it matter, and if so, why? As soon as one mentions a brand, many will imagine all sorts of things. I know I do based on what I have heard in cable comparisons in my own system and elsewhere. Most wires that I have heard add a very distinct signature which often influences strongly the sound of the system. As Tima writes, it is hard to know what the wires do until you change them.

Except for my SME NOS phono cables and Ching Cheng power cords, I don't even know what cables are in my system, so I could not even answer the question you asked Tim if I wanted to. My wires came with the gear when it was shipped to me. I had a different IC from preamp to amp because it was quite long. It sounded great in my old system, and I thought pretty good in my new system. DDK came to fine tune the new system and listened. He then inserted a new long IC. The sound instantly became more balanced, and I heard more information presented naturally. We both knew that cable sounded right. Importantly, it did not have that distinct signature that I so often associate with so many wires I've heard. My wires are cheap, and likely no longer readily available.

People keep what sounds right to them in their systems. Exposure and keeping an open mind helped me a lot.

IMHO it matters a lot. In fact, I consider knowing the gear of others a key point when reading WBF posts, as it helps us putting in context and understanding his message. Particularly important for reviewers.

Any cable will have a sound signature, yours will also have. As I have tried a few David cables I presume I know what they sound like, but can surely be wrong.

Fortunately when we refer to some brand or specific equipment our members can "imagine" things. Can you imagine the interest of a forum where we would only be allowed to refer to brands as X, Y or Z and equipment as 1 , 2 or 3?

BTW, Peter, exposure and open mind has past, present and future ...

Happy New Year!

 

[Tim Link]

This sounds like highly desirable music "magic" to me!

Yeah! It sure worked for me on that evening. I've kept the settings stored in my crossover, so some evening when I'm feeling brave I'll try it again. I don't know why but this sort of thing makes me a little nervous. I like measurements that make sense. I can't measure my emotions.

 

[tima]

Yes. But this type of filtering, using several inductors in series with power and tuned sections will interfere with many types of power cables.

I would not say that Lamm electronics 'interfere' with power cables, rather as is the case with all electronics and signal and power cables, there is matching for best result.

 

[bazelio]

This is an interesting question. Does it matter, and if so, why? As soon as one mentions a brand, many will imagine all sorts of things. I know I do based on what I have heard in cable comparisons in my own system and elsewhere. Most wires that I have heard add a very distinct signature which often influences strongly the sound of the system. As Tima writes, it is hard to know what the wires do until you change them.

Except for my SME NOS phono cables and Ching Cheng power cords, I don't even know what cables are in my system, so I could not even answer the question you asked Tim if I wanted to. My wires came with the gear when it was shipped to me. I had a different IC from preamp to amp because it was quite long. It sounded great in my old system, and I thought pretty good in my new system. DDK came to fine tune the new system and listened. He then inserted a new long IC. The sound instantly became more balanced, and I heard more information presented naturally. We both knew that cable sounded right. Importantly, it did not have that distinct signature that I so often associate with so many wires I've heard. My wires are cheap, and likely no longer readily available.

People keep what sounds right to them in their systems. Exposure and keeping an open mind helped me a lot.

But he didn't ask you, Peter. He asked Tim. Most people know what cables they have in their system. Your posts are becoming increasingly obsequious.

 

[PeterA]

But he didn't ask you, Peter. He asked Tim. Most people know what cables they have in their system. Your posts are becoming increasingly obsequious.

Brian, Tim responded. Are you telling me that I am not allowed to comment? This is an open discussion. People are free to express unsolicited opinions. At least I thought so. And they can express those opinions as they want. I was not aware that you are still reading my posts with my rather strong views on vdH and CC.

 

[microstrip]

I would not say that Lamm electronics 'interfere' with power cables, rather as is the case with all electronics and signal and power cables, there is matching for best result.

Surely careful matching of any cables is always needed. However most manufacturers avoid such specific filtration and readers of reviews should know about it.

The fact is that Lamm users seem to be a group that does not appreciate elaborate and/or expensive power cables and often criticize such approach. Just trying to find a reason for it in a thread about cables.

 

[PeterA]

Surely careful matching of any cables is always needed. However most manufacturers avoid such specific filtration and readers of reviews should know about it.

The fact is that Lamm users seem to be a group that does not appreciate elaborate and/or expensive power cables and often criticize such approach. Just trying to find a reason for it in a thread about cables.

I'm one of those Lamm users to whom you might be referring. I discovered that I preferred stock power cables, and then even more the NOS Ching Cheng power cables way before I had Lamm gear. I heard what fancy power cords did with all of my Pass Labs gear, and what they do in my friends' systems. They have a different opinion. Perhaps it is something else, Francisco. Perhaps people who appreciate Lamm gear also appreciate the lack of enhancement, the less is more approach, when it comes to power cords.

I really am not sure, but perhaps it is not just the filtration in the Lamm gear making the difference. Interestingly, Pass told me that their filtration would make it difficult to hear differences between cords. I found that not to be true. Their stock CC power cords sounded better than all of the fancy alternatives I tried, including direct in wall wires with IECs bypassing outlets, until I heard the NOS CC.

 

[ddk]

Surely careful matching of any cables is always needed. However most manufacturers avoid such specific filtration and readers of reviews should know about it.

The fact is that Lamm users seem to be a group that does not appreciate elaborate and/or expensive power cables and often criticize such approach. Just trying to find a reason for it in a thread about cables.

IME it has nothing to do with Lamm but with personal choices and experience. Also IME adudiophile & non- audiophile wires and specially power cords don’t change character with system. Their signature and SQ remains the same in all systems and this is something I’ve paid a lot of attention to over 3 decades. I’ve been recommending CC power cords since 2001, there are many more happy CC users than the few who report here and 99.9% don’t use Lamm electronics. I’ve successfully installed them in a variety of systems myself replacing all kinds of audiophile power cords. More than even personal preference it all depended on how far the audiophile HiFi rabbit hole one was.

Could it be that the Lamm users you mention had a personal encounter with me? Or maybe Lamm is among the most if not the most natural, high resolution transparent electronics!

david

 

[ddk]

View attachment 87576
Lamm's are fitted with elaborate industrial power supply filters. From their web site : "All LAMM models are equipped with internally built power line filters of high quality. " See this photo of the ML3 power supply:

The filter is great but unfortunately it doesn’t make the electronics impervious to mains quality or the sins of power cords.

david

 

[bazelio]

Yes. But this type of filtering, using several inductors in series with power and tuned sections will interfere with many types of power cables. IMHO it is why opinions on the power cables formulated with Lamm equipment are particular to such equipment and probably can not be generalized. BTW, there are more cases of such behavior - I only referred to Lamm because I own them.

No, Francisco. CLC filtering and RFI modules are not uncommon and don't interfere with power cables. There are two inexpensive Hammond chokes and a quad of electrolytic caps in the PSU you posted. I don't understand what you could possibly mean by "interfering". If there was no audible difference then why is there a preference for a specific cable? Lamm folks in this forum are but a clique and have certainly found what they like through contact with @ddk . If it works, go with it.

 

[Nelsen]

Ciao a tutti .
è veramente difficile osare una risposta.
ciò che conta "secondo me" e riuscire a mettere a punto un sistema che risulti essere il più aderente possibile all'evento reale .
se questo avviene allora non è un problema in quanto il vero fine dell'hi-fi è quello di risultare credibile ed evocativo .
ps
chiedo scusa se non scrivo in inglese ma sono troppo scarso .

 

[PeterA]

Ciao a tutti .
è veramente difficile osare una risposta.
ciò che conta "secondo me" e riuscire a mettere a punto un sistema che risulti essere il più aderente possibile all'evento reale .
se questo avviene allora non è un problema in quanto il vero fine dell'hi-fi è quello di risultare credibile ed evocativo .
ps
chiedo scusa se non scrivo in inglese ma sono troppo scarso .

Nice post Nelsen.

With translator:

"Hi everyone .
it is really difficult to dare to answer.
what counts "in my opinion" is being able to develop a system that is as close as possible to the real event.
if this happens then it is not a problem as the real purpose of hi-fi is to be credible and evocative.
ps
I'm sorry if I don't write in English but I'm too scarce."

 

[microstrip]

No, Francisco. CLC filtering and RFI modules are not uncommon and don't interfere with power cables. There are two inexpensive Hammond chokes and a quad of electrolytic caps in the PSU you posted. I don't understand what you could possibly mean by "interfering".

You are now mixing the RFI filters (the caned boxes of the photo) with the chokes and electrolytic caps - I am not addressing the last two. I am addressing the poles of the RF resonances of the cables and filters - sorry too long to explain in detail. If interested please see the articles of Shunyata or MIT, for example on RFI filters.

If there was no audible difference then why is there a preference for a specific cable? Lamm folks in this forum are but a clique and have certainly found what they like through contact with @ddk . If it works, go with it.

I (or anyone here, as far as I read) never said that there was no difference, just that the sonic signature could be atypical using Lamm gear. I see it in my system, YMMV.