Do you use cables to 'tune' the sonics of your system?

[Robh3606]

In a word no. Just like them to be well made with good connectors as terminations.

Rob

 

[bazelio]

The notion that antique wire used as interconnects or speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, etc are not tuning the sound or are somehow more transparent to the native sound of the connected components is silly. They're absolutely colored tuning devices. It's just that their sins of omission are sometimes preferable to the sins of commission committed by many alternatives. This is particularly true in particular systems featuring Master Signature front ends where they are commonly favored.

 

[ddk]

The notion that antique wire used as interconnects or speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, etc are not tuning the sound or are somehow more transparent to the native sound of the connected components is silly.

Why?
Lower coloration and higher resolution equates to transparency.

They're absolutely colored tuning devices. It's just that their sins of omission are sometimes preferable to the sins of commission committed by many alternatives. This is particularly true in particular systems featuring Master Signature front ends where they are commonly favored.

Omission is by definition a sin of commission and if that was the case CC would never be in any said “particular” systems with or without Master Signatures . High resolution natural sound is the cornerstone of some “particular” systems they simply don’t need artificial additives.

david

 

[bazelio]

The coloration is there, David. It's just of a different type. I don't agree with the premise that these cables are lower in coloration nor higher in resolution. I do agree that they're economical, but in the sense that you could achieve similar coloration with higher priced audiophile alternatives.

The Master Sig has certain sonic qualities that need to be tamed, and is lacking in areas thst need to be supplemented for the final result emitted from the speakers to sound balanced overall. It has many other great sonic qualities as well, but I'm not focusing on them here. Most people consider the Wavestream Kinetics archival phono stage to be a neutral device. I'm familiar with it and have many high quality digitized recordings from it. If we recorded Master Sig needle drops through this archival phono (even with a CC cord!) then we'd hear excessive and shrill high frequency energy and a lean overall character that is just endemic to that cartridge. The former quality likely owing in part to the fancy gold transducer coil wire. So, partnering with subdued CC cords, laid back phono stages (e.g. LP2 1), richer sounding interconnect wire and warm (e.g. 6C33C) amplifiers is no accident. It's a valid, deliberate, and well-informed approach. But it's not maintaining neutrality nor transparency to the source. *Removing* those layers, and their strong influence, would show that. And the cables and cords are an important part of that equation.

 

[PeterA]

The coloration is there, David. It's just of a different type. I don't agree with the premise that these cables are lower in coloration nor higher in resolution. I do agree that they're economical, but in the sense that you could achieve similar coloration with higher priced audiophile alternatives.

The Master Sig has certain sonic qualities that need to be tamed, and is lacking in areas thst need to be supplemented for the final result emitted from the speakers to sound balanced overall. It has many other great sonic qualities as well, but I'm not focusing on them here. Most people consider the Wavestream Kinetics archival phono stage to be a neutral device. I'm familiar with it and have many high quality digitized recordings from it. If we recorded Master Sig needle drops through this archival phono (even with a CC cord!) then we'd hear excessive and shrill high frequency energy and a lean overall character that is just endemic to that cartridge. The former quality likely owing in part to the fancy gold transducer coil wire. So, partnering with subdued CC cords, laid back phono stages (e.g. LP2 1), richer sounding interconnect wire and warm (e.g. 6C33C) amplifiers is no accident. It's a valid, deliberate, and well-informed approach. But it's not maintaining neutrality nor transparency to the source. *Removing* those layers, and their strong influence, would show that. And the cables and cords are an important part of that equation.

Brian, one of the strengths of WBF is the enthusiastic expression of differing opinions. Perhaps you could share a video of your system to give us an idea of the sound on which you base your comments.

 

[bazelio]

My system sounds like shit in phone recordings and contains none of the devices being discussed here. I myself would not be lured by my system based on such recordings. And besides, my comments are not based on my current system but on past observations. So phone recordings are an unnecessary distraction.

BTW, I'm not the only person to have made the above observations. I just seem to be the only person willing to post them. And that's fine with me.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Any audiophile who can discern cable differences based on phone recordings / you tube vids will be the " GOAT"

 

[ddk]

The coloration is there, David. It's just of a different type. I don't agree with the premise that these cables are lower in coloration nor higher in resolution. I do agree that they're economical, but in the sense that you could achieve similar coloration with higher priced audiophile alternatives.

The Master Sig has certain sonic qualities that need to be tamed, and is lacking in areas thst need to be supplemented for the final result emitted from the speakers to sound balanced overall. It has many other great sonic qualities as well, but I'm not focusing on them here. Most people consider the Wavestream Kinetics archival phono stage to be a neutral device. I'm familiar with it and have many high quality digitized recordings from it. If we recorded Master Sig needle drops through this archival phono (even with a CC cord!) then we'd hear excessive and shrill high frequency energy and a lean overall character that is just endemic to that cartridge. The former quality likely owing in part to the fancy gold transducer coil wire. So, partnering with subdued CC cords, laid back phono stages (e.g. LP2 1), richer sounding interconnect wire and warm (e.g. 6C33C) amplifiers is no accident. It's a valid, deliberate, and well-informed approach. But it's not maintaining neutrality nor transparency to the source. *Removing* those layers, and their strong influence, would show that. And the cables and cords are an important part of that equation.

Hi Brian,
Disagreement is fine and that’s what I was doing with your assessment of CC regarding resolution, the rest is a matter of opinion, taste and system so there’s nothing to agree or disagree with .

david

 

[twitch]

Any audiophile who can discern cable differences based on phone recordings / you tube vids will be the " GOAT"

and any audiophile that believes 'cable tuning' trumps proper speaker / room set-up and interaction is a real goat !

 

[andromedaaudio]

First get the basics : components/ match ups right .
if then they still wanna fool around with cables so be it .
25 K spend on better speakers / amps / sources makes much more sense to me .
Or a better room , cables would be the last on my mind


Im never gonna spend 25 k on cables, id rather buy a aprillia RSV 4 for that money , cant beat that one soundwise.
Or design a new speakermodel much more fun then cableswapping.
For 25 k i can probably buy also all tapes available from acoustic sounds / tape project.
And isnt " Music " where this whole thing is about

 

[Cellcbern]

First get the basics : components/ match ups right .
if then they still wanna fool around with cables so be it .
25 K spend on better speakers / amps / sources makes much more sense to me .
Or a better room , cables would be the last on my mind


Im never gonna spend 25 k on cables, id rather buy a aprillia RSV 4 for that money , cant beat that one soundwise.
Or design a new speakermodel much more fun then cableswapping.
For 25 k i can probably buy also all tapes available from acoustic sounds / tape project.
And isnt " Music " where this whole thing is about

What you would do with $25K has nothing to do with the role and importance of cables in “getting the matchups right”. Again, since you can only know whether you have “the basics right” via cables it doesn’t make sense to try to separate them from the other components in a system and diminish their role or value. You certainly don’t have to spend $25K to get cables that promote system synergy. On the other hand if you’ve never tried $25K (i.,e., top tier) cables you are not in a position to comment on their potential contribution.

 

[microstrip]

The notion that antique wire used as interconnects or speaker cables, Ching Cheng power cords, etc are not tuning the sound or are somehow more transparent to the native sound of the connected components is silly.

Although I dislike your style - finding something silly in an hobby ruled by subjective preference IMHO is not a good way to debate a subject such as cables - I agree with your main idea.

The "sound" of power cables is correlated with the gear and system we are using. The main objective of stereo high-end sound reproduction is not accurate transparency to the source, but handling the signal in a way we find it more real and/or more enjoyable, depending on the listeners.

The particular discussion on Ching Cheng and antique wire will survive for ever without fresh blood due to the very limited number of people who have easy access to them and lack of time to compare them with similar cables. I found the Ching Cheng a good power cable for the highly filtered Lamm's, but a poor choice for some other brands I own. YMMV, as they say.

BTW, if a poor quality youtube video easily shows the difference between power cables it probably means that the differences are being introduced by the handling and limitations of the recording device or the method being used. Measurements in the audio band carried with very sensitive instruments with high resolution are not able to detect any systematic difference that can be correlated with sound differences in the performance of equipment with different power cables and we expect that a mobile phone can do it?

FYI I once carried a series of null tests with two Quad 306 amplifiers using similar and different power cables - zero difference, but surely a sound difference! Please do not ask me why ...

 

[bazelio]

Although I dislike your style - finding something silly in an hobby ruled by subjective preference IMHO is not a good way to debate a subject such as cables - I agree with your main idea.

I have said nothing about the subjective sound preferences of those using these cables. Silly or otherwise. That said, there is more than enough silliness to be found within this hobby. Like it or not.

 

[bazelio]

Ching Cheng a good power cable for the highly filtered Lamm's,

By the way, could you elaborate on this, please? I'm not sure what you mean by "highly filtered Lamms".

 

[spiritofmusic]

Maybe "highly filtered" should be self-applied by some people posting on WBF Lol.

 

[bonzo75]

By the way, could you elaborate on this, please? I'm not sure what you mean by "highly filtered Lamms".

You should learn microspeak. It cleans up the power so you don't need power cable to do it.

 

[tima]

By the way, could you elaborate on this, please? I'm not sure what you mean by "highly filtered Lamms".

Filtering holds true for each Lamm phonostage and preamp.

LAMM – Quite simply the world's best audio electronics

 

[Tango]

Filtering holds true for each Lamm phonostage and preamp.

View attachment 87564

LAMM – Quite simply the world's best audio electronics

This is good saving.

 

[twitch]

On the other hand if you’ve never tried $25K (i.,e., top tier) cables you are not in a position to comment on their potential contribution.

LMAO, so someone who spends 25k and makes nothing more than a biased subjective opinion is ?

 

[Cellcbern]

LMAO, so someone who spends 25k and makes nothing more than a biased subjective opinion is ?

What is a "biased subjective opinion"? And what's the alternative? What does it have to do with the cost of the gear in question? Are your opinions of what your own gear/system sounds like biased? Subjective? Is there such a thing as an objective opinion? A subjective unbiased opinion? Not clear what point you are trying to make.

Looking at the description of your system I see that you are using relatively inexpensive cables with relatively more expensive/high end source/amplification/speakers. And that's fine - it may all work for you to deliver system synergy. My question is, have you tried higher end/more expensive cables (e.g., Ansuz, CMARC Entropic, Echole, Hemingway, Ikigai, Shunyata, etc.) to see what if any difference they might make, or have you just assumed that the additional expenditure would not yield proportional improvements? The use of a Signal Cable PC (is that correct?) with the Shunyata Denali 6000S in particular jumps out at me as unusual given the reputation the top tier Shunyata power conditioners have for being sensitive to power cable quality, and the conventional wisdom that you want to use the best PC you can on your power conditioner/distributor since it influences every connected device. If you've compared "high value" and expensive cables in your system and not found a signficant difference you would then have a basis for expressing opinions about the cables you've tried. Not sure to what extent your opinions on the subject would be "biased and subjective". But if you have just made assumptions and not actually listened to higher end cables in your system what basis would you have for expressing any opinion at all about the relative performance and value of the cables?