dCS Varese short review

[dcathro]

Talk about Hyperbolic reviews, spend time reading the Taiko threads on this site.

I have to be honest, as I am not in the least interested in streaming, I never go there.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It is a sunny weekend, we can hope that the Hyperbole Police is enjoying the holiday.

So, here comes another hyperbolic review of the dCS Varese:

https://dcsaudio.com/assets/hifi241cover.pdf

Sadly, the Hyperbole Police can never take a vacation. There are just too many crimes being committed.

We understand from a lobbyist friend that the legislature is considering a new statute to prosecute serial hyperbole crimes -- the high-end audio equivalent of the RICO statute.

It is difficult to believe that Alan Sircom did not have lying around, or could not borrow, some other DAC for even a brief comparison. It is absurd that Alan didn't make any kind of comparison between the Varese any other DAC of any kind. I find useless a "review" that involves no comparison to a competing component. We should start characterizing comparison-less pieces as mere "articles," and not "reviews."

We should start asking every single reviewer and every single YouTuber and every single "influencer" about (i) direct or indirect compensation; (ii) business arrangement or understanding; (iii) potential or actual conflict of interest; and (iv) undisclosed "pump and dump" schemes.

How does Alan get paid? Is it simply the magazine subscription? Does he receive any kind of compensation on a per article basis? All direct and indirect compensation should be fully disclosed.

pk_LA and I literally might have the most experience of anybody in the world comparing directly the dCS Apex to competing DACs. The dCS Apex was not our cup of tea.

We heard the Varese on a standalone basis at Brian Berdan's Audio Element and we have the impression, which we cannot substantiate, that the Varese is a great DAC.

 

[microstrip]

Sadly, the Hyperbole Police can never take a vacation. There are just too many crimes being committed.

We understand from a lobbyist friend that the legislature is considering a new statute to prosecute serial hyperbole crimes -- the high-end audio equivalent of the RICO statute.

It is difficult to believe that Alan Sircom did not have lying around, or could not borrow, some other DAC for even a brief comparison. It is absurd that Alan didn't make any kind of comparison between the Varese any other DAC of any kind. I find useless a "review" that involves no comparison to a competing component. We should start characterizing comparison-less pieces as mere "articles," and not "reviews."

Fortunately all the other reviews I have read on the dCS Varese I read did not include direct compares - one reviewer even explained why. As they came from reviewers I know well, I could easily understand their prose and enjoy them. But surely just good information and entertainment, as I often say.

IMO its not so difficult to understand that other people can have different perspectives on reviewing.

I surely fully agree with you that this particular review is more an article than a review - IMO it does not have content and maturity enough to be considered a review - he does not even refer to a system. But surely it is not because of the compares. Anyway the audio press does not have such formal separation.

We should start asking every single reviewer and every single YouTuber and every single "influencer" about (i) direct or indirect compensation; (ii) business arrangement or understanding; (iii) potential or actual conflict of interest; and (iv) undisclosed "pump and dump" schemes.

How does Alan get paid? Is it simply the magazine subscription? Does he receive any kind of compensation on a per article basis? All direct and indirect compensation should be fully disclosed.

Here you go again ... No comment.

pk_LA and I literally might have the most experience of anybody in the world comparing directly the dCS Apex to competing DACs. The dCS Apex was not our cup of tea.

IMO it was one good example of the absurdity of compares, I commented on it ... Anyway I do not expect your preference to lean towards the dCS Vivaldi Apex. BTW it is not a plug and play gear, it needs some expertise to optimize the system - I have listened to it sounding horrible or divine, depending on system.

We heard the Varese on a standalone basis at Brian Berdan's Audio Element and we have the impression, which we cannot substantiate, that the Varese is a great DAC.

It is much more than that, I can assure you ...

 

[Jack Pot]

I do not put much value on AS reviews. They are just 5 min fun reads. A reviewer like RG on the other hand, goes the extra mile. I was able to implement many of the RG "findings", most notably removing the felt pads from under the Nordost QB10. I will therefore wait for the RG review, if ever. However, I do not intend to ever buy a 6 to 7 box hifi setup, not even 2nd hand.

One of the clues about good Vivaldi Apex sound, is the support. I place every box - I have 3 - on Nordost TC Kones, which rest on Acapella bases, which stand on a "cheap" Neo High End stand (painted in the colours of my ACapella horns, which was USP). The other is power supplies and interconnects. The cherries on the cake are Nordost QPoints and QKore. Imagine the investment needed for Varese, independently of the space needed. And no, I have no financial interest in Nordost. I am convinced there are equally excellent solutions out there. I just want to listen to beautiful music, not scourge the market for what ifs.

Back to the Vivaldi Apex. CD sounds listenable (I did not buy the Upsampler for the above reasons), although sometimes rivaling SACD in modern recordings. Check out Fliegender Hollander, Finley, Davidsen, Gardner, Norwegian Opera, Decca. SACD sounds good to very good (no need for the Upsampler). Vinyl sounds uniformly very, very good. I do not stream. You guessed it: I hope Decca will issue Fliegender Hollander on vinyl. Speaking of which, Decca just reissued La Boheme (Freni, Pavarotti, Karajan) on vinyl AND on SACD. To quote Decca: to mark the 100th anniversary of Puccini's death, two high-quality box sets will be released on either 2 Hybrid SACD or 2LP, using a new 24-bit 192 kHz high-definition transfer from the original master tapes. For the vinyl edition the LPs have been cut at Abbey Road Studios and are pressed on 180gm vinyI. I bought both and will report on the sound quality if there is any interest. Two problems with this reissue: the performance was recorded at the Jesus Christ Kirche in Berlin (strangely hard sound lacking bass), the LPs have been cut at Abbey Road studios, which would not be my first choice.

As to AS's opinion that dCS Varese settles the score between digital - streaming no less! - and vinyl, I can only hope he is right. 10 years down the road, dCS - or a rival - will issue the miniature 2-box Xenakis and confine our cd/sacd/LP collections to the dustbin.

 

[JiminGa]

Sadly, the Hyperbole Police can never take a vacation. There are just too many crimes being committed.

We understand from a lobbyist friend that the legislature is considering a new statute to prosecute serial hyperbole crimes -- the high-end audio equivalent of the RICO statute.

It is difficult to believe that Alan Sircom did not have lying around, or could not borrow, some other DAC for even a brief comparison. It is absurd that Alan didn't make any kind of comparison between the Varese any other DAC of any kind. I find useless a "review" that involves no comparison to a competing component. We should start characterizing comparison-less pieces as mere "articles," and not "reviews."

We should start asking every single reviewer and every single YouTuber and every single "influencer" about (i) direct or indirect compensation; (ii) business arrangement or understanding; (iii) potential or actual conflict of interest; and (iv) undisclosed "pump and dump" schemes.

How does Alan get paid? Is it simply the magazine subscription? Does he receive any kind of compensation on a per article basis? All direct and indirect compensation should be fully disclosed.

pk_LA and I literally might have the most experience of anybody in the world comparing directly the dCS Apex to competing DACs. The dCS Apex was not our cup of tea.

We heard the Varese on a standalone basis at Brian Berdan's Audio Element and we have the impression, which we cannot substantiate, that the Varese is a great DAC.

All I can tell you is after hearing it 3 times in 3 different systems it is MILES better than the Apex. I was not hoping for that. I don’t really want to buy the whole Varese system. Fortunately the DACs were built with AES and there is enough headroom to incorporate required core functions within the DACS. Someday I hope stand alone Varese mono DACs will be available which I would be very interested in. It’s the best digital I’ve heard. I hope by now everyone knows that the vast majority of reviewers are hobbiests whose opinions are less reliable because of so many conflicts of interests. I roll my eyes every time I read “ I’ll wait for the reviews”

 

[microstrip]

All I can tell you is after hearing it 3 times in 3 different systems it is MILES better than the Apex. I was not hoping for that. I don’t really want to buy the whole Varese system. Fortunately the DACs were built with AES and there is enough headroom to incorporate required core functions within the DACS.

Can you clarify this aspect? As far as I see the Varese DACs only have the ACTUS input.

Someday I hope stand alone Varese mono DACs will be available which I would be very interested in.

I think that most of their sound quality comes from the core unit.

It’s the best digital I’ve heard.

We share such opinion.

I hope by now everyone knows that the vast majority of reviewers are hobbiests whose opinions are less reliable because of so many conflicts of interests.

It is why we have to select reviewers and weight their opinions carefully.

I roll my eyes every time I read “ I’ll wait for the reviews”

In fact, I appreciate seeing the Stereophile measurements before buying, if possible. Sometimes it helps my decisions.

 

[Jack Pot]

All I can tell you is after hearing it 3 times in 3 different systems it is MILES better than the Apex. I was not hoping for that. I don’t really want to buy the whole Varese system. Fortunately the DACs were built with AES and there is enough headroom to incorporate required core functions within the DACS. Someday I hope stand alone Varese mono DACs will be available which I would be very interested in. It’s the best digital I’ve heard. I hope by now everyone knows that the vast majority of reviewers are hobbiests whose opinions are less reliable because of so many conflicts of interests. I roll my eyes every time I read “ I’ll wait for the reviews”

True. The integrity of reviewers is an issue. However, when, on multiple occasions, my musical experience coincides with the assessment of a reviewer, I start trusting such assessments. "Reliable", "professional" reviewers spend a huge amount of time carefully assessing equipment from all walks of life, opening our eyes on what is "out there". Personally, I ended up buying a speaker system that has not been reviewed anywhere because, imho, it sounded close to the classical music concert experience when connected to the other equipment in my system. I readily admit: classical music lovers have an easier job, as they can compare with the live - not electronically amplified - performance. They can be more "trusting in their ears".

Regarding digital vs analogue, it was time that a digital system would dethrone vinyl! The latter has been around for almost 150 years! But at what price? For years, my euro 20 thd vinyl setup outperformed my Vivaldi setup on any metric imaginable. Then I upgraded to a euro 70 thd vinyl setup. The comparison became embarrassing. I stopped listening to digital. With the arrival of Apex, and a systematic programme of upgrades (notably the QB10, the cable loom, the platforms and the other tweaks), SACD digital again closed part of the gap (digital presentation is so different from analogue that taste plays an important role). My HiFi dealer then offered me a 2nd hand vinyl system worth euro 300 thd when new (turntable, arm, cartridge, phono amplifier, full cable loom). It shattered all expectations. Can dCS Varese live up to it? Probably, if it is properly tweaked, making it 30%-50% (SACD!) more expensive. Such a comparison would, for me, be the proof in the pudding. Would such a comparison be relevant? To a certain extent, because it would finally show that there is much more to digital than we suspect. Competition would do the rest.

 

[LL21]

True. The integrity of reviewers is an issue. However, when, on multiple occasions, my musical experience coincides with the assessment of a reviewer, I start trusting such assessments. "Reliable", "professional" reviewers spend a huge amount of time carefully assessing equipment from all walks of life, opening our eyes on what is "out there". Personally, I ended up buying a speaker system that has not been reviewed anywhere because, imho, it sounded close to the classical music concert experience when connected to the other equipment in my system. I readily admit: classical music lovers have an easier job, as they can compare with the live - not electronically amplified - performance. They can be more "trusting in their ears".

Regarding digital vs analogue, it was time that a digital system would dethrone vinyl! The latter has been around for almost 150 years! But at what price? For years, my euro 20 thd vinyl setup outperformed my Vivaldi setup on any metric imaginable. Then I upgraded to a euro 70 thd vinyl setup. The comparison became embarrassing. I stopped listening to digital. With the arrival of Apex, and a systematic programme of upgrades (notably the QB10, the cable loom, the platforms and the other tweaks), SACD digital again closed part of the gap (digital presentation is so different from analogue that taste plays an important role). My HiFi dealer then offered me a 2nd hand vinyl system worth euro 300 thd when new (turntable, arm, cartridge, phono amplifier, full cable loom). It shattered all expectations. Can dCS Varese live up to it? Probably, if it is properly tweaked, making it 30%-50% (SACD!) more expensive. Such a comparison would, for me, be the proof in the pudding. Would such a comparison be relevant? To a certain extent, because it would finally show that there is much more to digital than we suspect. Competition would do the rest.

Nice system! I have heard the Clearaudio Statement in HK years ago with the Rockport Arrakis. Stunning TT! Not familiar with your particular Acapella but might PM with some questions about them.

 

[Al M.]

Personally, I ended up buying a speaker system that has not been reviewed anywhere because, imho, it sounded close to the classical music concert experience when connected to the other equipment in my system. I readily admit: classical music lovers have an easier job, as they can compare with the live - not electronically amplified - performance. They can be more "trusting in their ears".

That is true, but not in an absolute sense. Having unamplified music as a reference clearly helps, but there are still strong listener biases involved. I have found that even those with this reference may end up having wildly divergent systems. I have also found that even when sitting next to one another in a concert, sonic experiences of people diverge, at least to some extent.

Also, not everyone's typical live experience is the same, since unamplified live music can sound very different depending on the venue, see my experience here (#3,805):

KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

ITron is solid state, perhaps the best implementation of this, but it remains solid state. why they have championed SS with their speakers I will never understand. Engineers mindset rather than listening perhaps?? IMO, the iTron is not the last word in solid state amps for AGs. More emotional...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Even in the same concert hall the experience can vary quite a bit depending where you sit in the hall, and how far away from the performers.

 

[JiminGa]

Can you clarify this aspect? As far as I see the Varese DACs only have the ACTUS input.



I think that most of their sound quality comes from the core unit.



We share such opinion.



It is why we have to select reviewers and weight their opinions carefully.



In fact, I appreciate seeing the Stereophile measurements before buying, if possible. Sometimes it helps my decisions.

When it was created it was built using internal AES. It has no external AES connection at this point. “ where the improvements come from” include: anti resonance casework, a unique bendable circuitboard, differential DAC with 2x current sources, ACTOS, improved specialized power supplies and the processing in the core. I didn’t say to do away with the core functions. If you use AES streaming from another source then the remaining signal “ preconditioning “ required in the core could be taken up by the extra headroom currently residing in the DACs. This would make them stand alone DACs. I don’t think DCS has decided to go this way at this point but it would be an elegant concept.

 

[microstrip]

When it was created it was built using internal AES. It has no external AES connection at this point. “ where the improvements come from” include: anti resonance casework, a unique bendable circuitboard, differential DAC with 2x current sources, ACTOS, improved specialized power supplies and the processing in the core. I didn’t say to do away with the core functions. If you use AES streaming from another source then the remaining signal “ preconditioning “ required in the core could be taken up by the extra headroom currently residing in the DACs. This would make them stand alone DACs. I don’t think DCS has decided to go this way at this point but it would be an elegant concept.

Thanks - my point was simply that AES would compromise the dCS Varese DACs performance.

 

[JiminGa]

True. The integrity of reviewers is an issue. However, when, on multiple occasions, my musical experience coincides with the assessment of a reviewer, I start trusting such assessments. "Reliable", "professional" reviewers spend a huge amount of time carefully assessing equipment from all walks of life, opening our eyes on what is "out there". Personally, I ended up buying a speaker system that has not been reviewed anywhere because, imho, it sounded close to the classical music concert experience when connected to the other equipment in my system. I readily admit: classical music lovers have an easier job, as they can compare with the live - not electronically amplified - performance. They can be more "trusting in their ears".

Regarding digital vs analogue, it was time that a digital system would dethrone vinyl! The latter has been around for almost 150 years! But at what price? For years, my euro 20 thd vinyl setup outperformed my Vivaldi setup on any metric imaginable. Then I upgraded to a euro 70 thd vinyl setup. The comparison became embarrassing. I stopped listening to digital. With the arrival of Apex, and a systematic programme of upgrades (notably the QB10, the cable loom, the platforms and the other tweaks), SACD digital again closed part of the gap (digital presentation is so different from analogue that taste plays an important role). My HiFi dealer then offered me a 2nd hand vinyl system worth euro 300 thd when new (turntable, arm, cartridge, phono amplifier, full cable loom). It shattered all expectations. Can dCS Varese live up to it? Probably, if it is properly tweaked, making it 30%-50% (SACD!) more expensive. Such a comparison would, for me, be the proof in the pudding. Would such a comparison be relevant? To a certain extent, because it would finally show that there is much more to digital than we suspect. Competition would do the rest.

Sure there are reviewers whose opinions I frequently share. How they got there and the understanding of all the things influencing the sounds informing those opinions are question marks. It’s easy for me or you to flame a manufacturer but not for them. Like you there are several I enjoy reading and I appreciate measurements. No way I ever buy anything based upon either of those.

 

[JiminGa]

Thanks - my point was simply that AES would compromise the dCS Varese DACs performance.

Maybe. I have no way of assessing that. I don’t know what they’d be connected to. It would compromise the Varese as a system. I’m confident of that. This is all just my speculation anyway based upon them telling me about the creative process behind the Varese. We will all find out in good time.

 

[microstrip]

True. The integrity of reviewers is an issue. However, when, on multiple occasions, my musical experience coincides with the assessment of a reviewer, I start trusting such assessments. "Reliable", "professional" reviewers spend a huge amount of time carefully assessing equipment from all walks of life, opening our eyes on what is "out there".

Very true. But a good reviewer is not just a few thousand characters text - it is someone with an audio past, an evolving system, a defined preference and a social life - I valuate all these aspects.

Personally, I ended up buying a speaker system that has not been reviewed anywhere because, imho, it sounded close to the classical music concert experience when connected to the other equipment in my system. I readily admit: classical music lovers have an easier job, as they can compare with the live - not electronically amplified - performance. They can be more "trusting in their ears".

Would you have discarded the speaker if it had been reviewed before?

I agree that classical music lovers have an easier life, but also for another reason - they can easily fool themselves, focusing on specific aspects and details. But is is an individual "easiness".

Regarding digital vs analogue, it was time that a digital system would dethrone vinyl! The latter has been around for almost 150 years! But at what price? For years, my euro 20 thd vinyl setup outperformed my Vivaldi setup on any metric imaginable. Then I upgraded to a euro 70 thd vinyl setup. The comparison became embarrassing. I stopped listening to digital. With the arrival of Apex, and a systematic programme of upgrades (notably the QB10, the cable loom, the platforms and the other tweaks), SACD digital again closed part of the gap (digital presentation is so different from analogue that taste plays an important role). My HiFi dealer then offered me a 2nd hand vinyl system worth euro 300 thd when new (turntable, arm, cartridge, phono amplifier, full cable loom). It shattered all expectations. Can dCS Varese live up to it? Probably, if it is properly tweaked, making it 30%-50% (SACD!) more expensive. Such a comparison would, for me, be the proof in the pudding. Would such a comparison be relevant? To a certain extent, because it would finally show that there is much more to digital than we suspect. Competition would do the rest.

Here we disagree. I also went through the ultra high quality, ultra expensive vinyl. A great experience, but tape managed to keep me cool. IMO and system, the dCS Apex Vivaldi was closer to a Studer A80 playing master tapes than top vinyl. Listening and enjoying to high-end stereo sound reproduction is a surely a learned and biased activity, but when listening to these three types of sources I enjoyed more the Apex, particularly when listening to recordings made after 1990 and classical music.

The arrival of the dCS Varese in my system a couple of months ago was a confirmation of my preference for good digital. Recording after recording were new experiences, with more music in the recording, presented in an unstressed way. Surely just a personal preference.

 

[LL21]

...The arrival of the dCS Varese in my system a couple of months ago was a confirmation of my preference for good digital. Recording after recording were new experiences, with more music in the recording, presented in an unstressed way. Surely just a personal preference.

Is congratulations in order?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

The arrival of the dCS Varese in my system a couple of months ago was a confirmation of my preference for good digital. Recording after recording were new experiences, with more music in the recording, presented in an unstressed way. Surely just a personal preference.

Is congratulations in order?

@microstrip

i just spent a few minutes searching your posts for the last couple of months to see if maybe i missed the announcement. i have been somewhat hit and miss on WBF lately so i was not sure. OTOH you do like to play the mystery man about your system moves mostly.

so what gives here?

if you did the deed good for you and i'm very happy for you! clearly it's something you felt strongly positive about.

 

[microstrip]

Is congratulations in order?

Lloyd,

Fortunately my bank manager does not read WBF, many thanks!

 

[microstrip]

@microstrip

i just spent a few minutes searching your posts for the last couple of months to see if maybe i missed the announcement. i have been somewhat hit and miss on WBF lately so i was not sure. OTOH you do like to play the mystery man about your system moves mostly.

so what gives here?

if you did the deed good for you and i'm very happy for you! clearly it's something you felt strongly positive about.

Yes, I am really happy with it - it sounds great, much better than I could expect.

My only concern with it is that the ACTUS long patent https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/1c/d7/e2/c7144032345f6d/WO2023247923A1.pdf is extremely complex to read and I still have doubts on how the dCS Varese works!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Yes, I am really happy with it - it sounds great, much better than I could expect.

excellent. look forward to reading lots of feedback from you about it.

My only concern with it is that the ACTUS long patent is extremely complex to read and I still have doubts on how the dCS Varese works!

as you very well know, i have little concerns for how things actually work. not zero, but i just never worry too much about it. but nice that we all approach things in our own ways to find the maximum satisfaction. hope at some point you find your answers.

 

[dcathro]

The arrival of the dCS Varese in my system a couple of months ago was a confirmation of my preference for good digital. Recording after recording were new experiences, with more music in the recording, presented in an unstressed way. Surely just a personal preference.

Pictures?