What's the best DAC digital interface possible?

[wisnon]

Hi Blizzard,

Very interesting and insightful thread. I need some advise here, my music server has only usb output so I connect it to my dac (NAD M51) via usb which works very well and it sound very nice. But will it be better if I use usb-spdif converter to connect to my dac via aes/ebu or should I buy a new music server with aes/ebu output or a new dac with better usb implementation (e.g. Invicta Mirus, Lynx Hilo, etc.)?

Thanks.

Impossible for him to know without firsthand experience with all those component. You could buy an OffRamp5 or a Berkeley USB converter to feed spdif or aes (to the OR5). Cost about $1-2K.

However, you could also sell all your current gear and get a Mirus (or Invicta) which can do high rate DSD and can be fed with its built in SD card player.
You could also go another route and get say a sonore Signature Rendu for ($3K) and a PSA Directstream and feed the Dac by i2s from the SSR
connected to a NAS. You can also get a CAPs style server and feed a qulity DSD Dac using USB with Regen/Jitterbug or iFI iUSB and playback all at DSD256 via HQ Player or Bughead Emperor.

 

[Argonaut]

Impossible for him to know without firsthand experience with all those component. You could buy an OffRamp5 or a Berkeley USB converter to feed spdif or aes (to the OR5). Cost about $1-2K.

However, you could also sell all your current gear and get a Mirus (or Invicta) which can do high rate DSD and can be fed with its built in SD card player.
You could also go another route and get say a sonore Signature Rendu for ($3K) and a PSA Directstream and feed the Dac by i2s from the SSR
connected to a NAS. You can also get a CAPs style server and feed a qulity DSD Dac using USB with Regen/Jitterbug or iFI iUSB and playback all at DSD256 via HQ Player or Bughead Emperor.

Wisnon, If I may inquire, IYO what would be the very best audio quality Source and Interface with the GG, in particular DSD 256 should that be a factor.

TVM.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Wisnon, If I may inquire, IYO what would be the very best audio quality Source and Interface with the GG, in particular DSD 256 should that be a factor.

TVM.

I only have the lowly Jriver (no HQ player or BE). but my CAPS v4 Pipeline 'Komputer' clone with various LPS's over Totaldac USB into the SE GG playing my 24 Quad dsd (256) albums sounds pretty good. the native Quad files sounding easily the best. Regen and Jitterbug don't seem to help this combo that I can hear. the Regen (powered by the Uptone LS-2 LPS) does improve things slightly with the Trinity dac.

 

[Blizzard]

Hi Blizzard,

Very interesting and insightful thread. I need some advise here, my music server has only usb output so I connect it to my dac (NAD M51) via usb which works very well and it sound very nice. But will it be better if I use usb-spdif converter to connect to my dac via aes/ebu or should I buy a new music server with aes/ebu output or a new dac with better usb implementation (e.g. Invicta Mirus, Lynx Hilo, etc.)?

Thanks.

All depends on the transport used. Some transports have way better SPDIF/AESEBU implementations than others. It has the potential to sound better, however you'll be limited to 24/192 PCM max.

 

[Blizzard]

Wisnon, If I may inquire, IYO what would be the very best audio quality Source and Interface with the GG, in particular DSD 256 should that be a factor.

TVM.

I can answer that. It would definitely be getting Lukasz to put a I2S/DSD over LVDS HDMI port on the DAC, and using a compatible transport. If USB is a must, I know of a reclocker board for the Amanero that the GG uses that would make the USB on that DAC light years better. It would be a 10 minute job and involve no modifications to the DAC.

As far as source, well all depends. That $495 SDtrans384 I was talking about connected via I2S HDMI would probably get you the best sound out of the GG. If the rudimentary storage and GUI is unacceptable for you, something like the Sonore Signature Rendu would be next in line connected via I2S HDMI.

 

[wisnon]

Wisnon, If I may inquire, IYO what would be the very best audio quality Source and Interface with the GG, in particular DSD 256 should that be a factor.

TVM.

I dont know firsthand, but would trust Mike's experience and I further hear that the Komputer with USB out feeding JR upsampled DSD256 to BE in AO Core Mode is the beez kneez.

I may get to hear this setup this weekend (Warsaw show), so look out for possible feedback next week.

The Sound Galleries Server will likely be very nice too, based on all the power supply innovations and software tweaking.

No i2s on the Lampi yet...I guess it will come, but not sure of any big leap in quality, based on what he has squeezed out of USB so far...to the pont where even the Regen can cause a step backwards with the Komputer.

Again, this is all 2nd hand info so far.

 

[Doak]

Recently picked up this thread. Seems to be at about the point it was on CA before being truncated.

What that thread, which is largely echoed here, did for me as a Lampizator user was to push me to reinvestigate the SPDIF option. When I got the Lampi Gen5 L4 several months ago I was using a SW optimized laptop as source and USB output to the DAC because that was the only option I really had. At that time I did connect a modded Oppo 83SE via SPDIF and immediately noticed/heard better sound than on my CD rips. At that time I did not realize that much of the improvement I heard may have been due to the SPDIF interface.

I've since acquired an Auralic Aries and gave a cursory listen to both RCA and USB outputs. I realized that even with a basic Canare digital cable the SPDIF had an edge. Unfortunately I could not use that option to stream my considerable collection of DSD material. With the addition of an Uptone Regen with LPS power and good cabling I felt the USB option to be equal or better than the SPDIF and used USB for ALL music playback.

After hearing what Blizzard had to say on the subject of digital interfaces, I decided to revisit the SPDIF connection between my Aries and Lampizator. I am admittedly adverse to spending what I consider a lot of money on cables, having done DIY for nearly all of my cabling needs for 30+ years. After doing a some research I recently acquired what may be considered a "decent" RCA digital cable and experimented with it vs the optimized USB option.

As a result of this exercise, I am now using a SPDIF option for all PCM playback up to its limits. DSD is still fed via USB. To my ears with these components the SDPIF sounds more "right" than the "goosed up" USB connection. Since I must ALWAYS flick a switch on the Lampi to go from PCM to DSD, I now flick 2 switches and also change from SPDIF to USB. In this setup I also, easily & quickly via iPad, change the Aries Lightning Server output channel.

Moral of the story: It may be well worth thoroughly exploring if you've an interface option available other than USB, even if it will not handle all of the music files you wish to play.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I can answer that. It would definitely be........

Blizzard,

I'm sure you mean well, and that you know your digital interfaces more than most.

but continually stating opinion as fact without any hands on experience with the gear in question is just wrong. now....if you have used this gear yourself and tried all these processes specifically then I stand corrected.

I just advise to somewhat qualify your statements to some degree.

I'm certainly not claiming any technical knowledge myself, I can only relate what I hear. but I did actually hear it myself in my system.

 

[ellevoid]

Thanks for your answer Blizzard and wisnon.

So if my dac has a better aes/ebu implememtation then getting a usb-spdif converter would be better, am I right (I might go for weiss int204 not sure anyone here has experience with it). But as you mentioned earlier in this thread about usb is not a good way for digital interface, so will this converter really help and fix the problem from usb?

 

[Blizzard]

Recently picked up this thread. Seems to be at about the point it was on CA before being truncated.

What that thread, which is largely echoed here, did for me as a Lampizator user was to push me to reinvestigate the SPDIF option. When I got the Lampi Gen5 L4 several months ago I was using a SW optimized laptop as source and USB output to the DAC because that was the only option I really had. At that time I did connect a modded Oppo 83SE via SPDIF and immediately noticed/heard better sound than on my CD rips. At that time I did not realize that much of the improvement I heard may have been due to the SPDIF interface.

I've since acquired an Auralic Aries and gave a cursory listen to both RCA and USB outputs. I realized that even with a basic Canare digital cable the SPDIF had an edge. Unfortunately I could not use that option to stream my considerable collection of DSD material. With the addition of an Uptone Regen with LPS power and good cabling I felt the USB option to be equal or better than the SPDIF and used USB for ALL music playback.

After hearing what Blizzard had to say on the subject of digital interfaces, I decided to revisit the SPDIF connection between my Aries and Lampizator. I am admittedly adverse to spending what I consider a lot of money on cables, having done DIY for nearly all of my cabling needs for 30+ years. After doing a some research I recently acquired what may be considered a "decent" RCA digital cable and experimented with it vs the optimized USB option.

As a result of this exercise, I am now using a SPDIF option for all PCM playback up to its limits. DSD is still fed via USB. To my ears with these components the SDPIF sounds more "right" than the "goosed up" USB connection. Since I must ALWAYS flick a switch on the Lampi to go from PCM to DSD, I now flick 2 switches and also change from SPDIF to USB. In this setup I also, easily & quickly via iPad, change the Aries Lightning Server output channel.

Moral of the story: It may be well worth thoroughly exploring if you've an interface option available other than USB, even if it will not handle all of the music files you wish to play.

I'm glad you discovered first hand that although USB has allowed us to easily interface to general purpose computers, and pass high Rez formats, it's a step back in sound quality. One of the great things about the Lampi's are they are built in a modular form factor. Lukasz could easily retrofit any of his DAC's with I2S/DSD over LVDS. Then you'll be able to enjoy sound leaps and bounds above the SPDIF, while at the same time accepting any resolution available. Even DSD 1028 no problem.

If Lukasz won't, there's I2S/DSD LVDS receiver boards available for 9 Euros each that can be a simple drop in replacement for the Amanero USB interface that all Lampi's use.

I have 1 right here. Just no parts soldered on yet. The one on the left is the receiver board you would put in the DAC, the other is a sender, but not required for transports with built on I2S/DSD LVDS HDMI outputs.

View attachment 23079

 

[Blizzard]

Blizzard,

I'm sure you mean well, and that you know your digital interfaces more than most.

but continually stating opinion as fact without any hands on experience with the gear in question is just wrong. now....if you have used this gear yourself and tried all these processes specifically then I stand corrected.

I just advise to somewhat qualify your statements to some degree.

I'm certainly not claiming any technical knowledge myself, I can only relate what I hear. but I did actually hear it myself in my system.

I'm not sure why your assuming I have no first hand experience testing these interfaces. I have first hand experience testing every one except ST fiber. I also have several friends who have, as well as have talked with several industry leaders on the subject.

The Amanero I have sitting here on my desk, is the USB interface used in your GG. I have extensively tested it. My friend who makes the reclocker board specifically for it, has been using it since day 1.

Beside it is a far superior drop in replacement that only costs 9 euros.

If your among the crowd that feels "mediocrity is good enough" or "ignorance is bliss" I will be the first to tell you, turn a blind eye to this thread. If not, I reccommend taking my advice and getting the best out of your equipment.

View attachment 23080

 

[Blizzard]

Thanks for your answer Blizzard and wisnon.

So if my dac has a better aes/ebu implememtation then getting a usb-spdif converter would be better, am I right (I might go for weiss int204 not sure anyone here has experience with it). But as you mentioned earlier in this thread about usb is not a good way for digital interface, so will this converter really help and fix the problem from usb?

The Transport also must have a good AES/EBU implementation. If you must have your computer in the chain, and you want to take advantage of all the cool software media player apps, you could try some of the high quality USB to AES/EBU bridges. They can offer better performance than internal USB interfaces, if they have a superior USB interface inside of them than your DAC has.

But you won't beat a well implemented stand alone transport with AES/EBU. The SD card transports (QA660 and SDtrans384) are about as good as you'll get for sound from an external transport.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'm not sure why your assuming I have no first hand experience testing these interfaces. I have first hand experience testing every one except ST fiber. I also have several friends who have, as well as have talked with several industry leaders on the subject.

The Amanero I have sitting here on my desk is the USB interface used in your GG. I have extensively tested it. My friend who makes the reclocker board specifically for it, has been using it since day 1.

Beside it is a far superior drop in replacement that only costs 9 euros.

If your among the crowd that feels "mediocrity is good enough" or ignorance is bliss" I will be the first to tell you, turn a blind eye to this thread. If not, I reccommend taking my advice and getting the best out of your equipment.

View attachment 23080

you don't have the dac. is that so hard to understand?

and everything you say is expressed as a fact. end of discussion. don't you 'get' that that is a bit too much?

 

[Blizzard]

you don't have the dac. is that so hard to understand?

and everything you say is expressed as a fact. end of discussion. don't you 'get' that that is a bit too much?

This USB interface comes before the DAC. I don't need to have the DAC to know improving this interface will improve the sound. He uses this interface because it's one of the better ones that is readily available for cheap, and it's a turn key easy solution. It doesn't matter which DAC you pop this interface in, improving it will make better sound.

 

[Blizzard]

For Lampi user's who want to continue going the USB route, but also want the best sound possible from USB. I highly recommend this Amanero reclocker board. It will enable the best sound from USB I know of.

View attachment 23082

-HiRes, Bit-Perfect 32bits I2S - 44.1k, 48k, 88.2k, 96k, 176.4k, 192k, 352.8k and 384k
-DSD 64,128,256 and 512
-Based on Amanero and AKL-S03 Digital Isolator/Re-Clocker
-Dual Ultra-low Phase Noise Synchronous Audio Clocks
-Buffered Outputs on micro coax (u.fl) headers
-Direct connection to most DACs
-Drives ESS DACs in 'Turbo' Sync mode for the highest performance.
-All separate ultra-low noise (1uV rms) power supply and filters on board with very high PSSR
-Ultra pure 3.3V supply (<0.5uV rms noise) for Oscillator section. Options for external supply from batteries, etc
-I2C Port for reading sample rates directly from transport
-Led sample rate indicators on-board.
-Wide input supply 5-12V d.c. Regulated or unregulated
-Gold plated 2oz Rogers 4003 board
-Selection of finest components
-Assembled and tested

 

[Argonaut]

Thank you Gentlemen, much to ponder.

Blizzard... have you considered conveying your considerations and personal recommendations directly to Lukasz ?

 

[Blizzard]

Thank you Gentlemen, much to ponder.

Blizzard... have you considered conveying your considerations and personal recommendations directly to Lukasz ?

I will have a new Ravenna based interface board in my possession soon I will be running through the paces. This will be the ultimate solution as an interface option. This board will render USB interfaces obsolete. So once this is ready for distribution to OEM's, Lukasz should be one of the first that is interested. Big bonus is it can easily be retrofitted into any Lampi DAC to replace the Amanero.

Check out the Merging NADAC for an example of similar implementation.

http://nadac.merging.com/networking

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Check out the Merging NADAC for an example of similar implementation.

Enjoying it now as I type this. :b

 

[Blizzard]

Enjoying it now as I type this. :b

Excellent!

What do you think of the Ravenna interface and the DAC?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Blizz - so which is better out of the Ravenna or i2s hdmi interfaces?

In terms of transports for Ravenna - is that just via standard Ethernet so any PC will do?