What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

[Al M.]

400k speaker with Krell in a dedicated room

Ok, the first video has great bass weight and punch! (Maybe even somewhat too resonant.) Yet it sounds muffled in guitars and vocals.

But it's the same system as in the other video posted above! So here you can see how the video sound from the same system can vary,, which is another reason why system videos are questionable.

The second video on the acapella horns sounds best (for a system video that is). It too has problems with the sound, but on balance it has the best balance .

 

[bonzo75]

Ok, the first video has great bass weight and punch! (Maybe even somewhat too resonant.) Yet it sounds muffled in guitars and vocals.

But it's the same system as in the other video posted above! So here you can see how the video sound from the same system can vary,, which is another reason why system videos are questionable.

The second video on the acapella horns sounds best (for a system video that is). It too has problems with the sound, but on balance it has the best balance .

That video is bad and the system in person lol. You hear it when the drums start. But it has digital crossover and audible both in person and video. Mashing that appeals to you

 

[Atmasphere]

Ok, the first video has great bass weight and punch! (Maybe even somewhat too resonant.) Yet it sounds muffled in guitars and vocals.

If the bass is too pronounced it can have this effect. There might be too much bass due to a number of reasons, all of which might have nothing to do with the system and in addition to some that might. Making any kind of pronouncement based on what you hear over the internet isn't a good idea.

 

[Al M.]

That video is bad and the system in person lol. You hear it when the drums start. But it has digital crossover and audible both in person and video. Mashing that appeals to you

As I said, there are problems with the sound. I didn't say it was great...

With "best balance" I meant weight, clarity and (relative) lack of muffled sound -- all compared with the other two videos which both have major problems too. But that of course is superficial and doesn't take into account the other problems with the sound.

 

[Al M.]

Making any kind of pronouncement based on what you hear over the internet isn't a good idea.

Which has always been my point as well.

 

[bonzo75]

If the bass is too pronounced it can have this effect. There might be too much bass due to a number of reasons, all of which might have nothing to do with the system and in addition to some that might. Making any kind of pronouncement based on what you hear over the internet isn't a good idea.

There isn’t too much bass in the room nor on video.

 

[Kozak170]

Right.

Yeah, no....

The Wikipedia link that you cite says:

In a loudspeaker, power compression or thermal compression is a loss of efficiency observed as the voice coil heats up under operation, increasing the DC resistance of the voice coil and decreasing the effective available power of the audio amplifier. A loudspeaker that becomes hot from use may not produce as much sound pressure level as when it is cold.[1][2] The problem is much greater for hard-driven professional concert systems than it is for loudspeakers in the home, where it is rarely seen.[3].

Quotation [3] is the Stereophile article that you linked to. This article says, on page 2:

The results, shown in figs. 3 and 4, came as something of a surprise. Despite what rates as a high playback level for me and, I imagine, most Stereophile readers, I had anticipated there being only modest increases in voice-coil resistance. But the increases were even less than I'd expected.

[...]
More realistically, on the wider-dynamic-range material I more usually listen to, and at my habitual replay levels, the rise in voice-coil temperature and the concomitant thermal compression will be lower still. So I strongly suspect that, for most hi-fi users—those who don't habitually wind the volume control to its highest position and indulge in PA listening levels—thermal compression is a paper tiger.

[...]
Right now, the prospect of thermal compression in my listening-room loudspeakers causes me no lost sleep whatsoever.

***

So there you have it. Your citations in favor of your argument turn out to be fuel for the opposite argument, that thermal compression in domestic systems is mostly a non-issue.

That article presents a detailed mathematical model showing that during short transients, voice coil heating isn’t fast enough to cause noticeable dynamic compression. However, it also notes that with long-term listening or higher sustained temperatures, cumulative compression can occur. In practice (as shown in Stereophile’s tests and reported by listeners), even in home hi-fi speakers, some power compression of around 0.5–1 dB can be observed, especially at higher SPLs. The conclusion is that in very short transients (a few milliseconds), voice coil heating usually isn’t fast enough to limit dynamics. But during extended listening sessions or at high SPL, the voice coil gradually heats up → resistance increases → sensitivity drops → and as a result, the dynamics become compressed.

As to macro and micro dynamics , high sensitivity horns speakers , do not do micro dynamics very well , macro yes , sensitivity usually takes a beating when attempting a properly balanced full bandwidth loudspeaker system , unless being actively done with multiple amplifications which brings another set of issues to the table..

What is your definition of microdynamics?

400k speaker with Krell in a dedicated room

The Acapella sounds like a toy compared to Altec. Unlike proper horn designs, Acapella hasn’t even respected correct housing structure, and its mid-bass horn rises awkwardly into the middle of the room. In proper practice, the mid-bass horn should be floor-coupled to gain reinforcement. But when the mid-bass horn is placed above the mid-horn unit, the fundamental frequencies are reduced, you mostly hear overtones, and the overall efficiency is diminished.

 

[morricab]

That article presents a detailed mathematical model showing that during short transients, voice coil heating isn’t fast enough to cause noticeable dynamic compression. However, it also notes that with long-term listening or higher sustained temperatures, cumulative compression can occur. In practice (as shown in Stereophile’s tests and reported by listeners), even in home hi-fi speakers, some power compression of around 0.5–1 dB can be observed, especially at higher SPLs. The conclusion is that in very short transients (a few milliseconds), voice coil heating usually isn’t fast enough to limit dynamics. But during extended listening sessions or at high SPL, the voice coil gradually heats up → resistance increases → sensitivity drops → and as a result, the dynamics become compressed.

What is your definition of microdynamics?

The Acapella sounds like a toy compared to Altec. Unlike proper horn designs, Acapella hasn’t even respected correct housing structure, and its mid-bass horn rises awkwardly into the middle of the room. In proper practice, the mid-bass horn should be floor-coupled to gain reinforcement. But when the mid-bass horn is placed above the mid-horn unit, the fundamental frequencies are reduced, you mostly hear overtones, and the overall efficiency is diminished.

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[Zero000]

Subject to more serious critical listening to confirm, my favorite all around speaker for the goals we have discussed about effortless, just effortless scale, incredibly effortless nuance, midrange magic and bass bass bass foundation.

But it takes a commitment of SPACE to do it. The footprint is probably 5 feet deep by 5 feet wide...per channel...it probably can be more done more compactly, but its never going to be a 2' x 3' footprint Rockport Arrakis (my 2nd favorite speaker). The only other option is to go with different subs...stacked more compact subs like REL, Perlisten or Funk, or Pure Low Sub Panels. I have looked at the measurements of AG's more compact bass modules the TwinSub...still 36" deep by 14" wide and some 30" in height. 95cm x 36cm x 78cm. Still a meaningful amount of floor space per sub.

Yup I agree.

Even with a totally detached building from my main residence I only have 14' by 35' to play with. Loadsa length, not enough girth as the actress said to the bishop.

AG Duo Mezzo might work. But the side wall bounce from the horn would cause all sorts of interesting aberrations. TBH planars are a pretty good solution in such a room.

Trios and bass horns would work in the main residence in a 30' by 60'. Not in a wife friendly manner, however.

Gotta draw a line somewhere.

 

[Al M.]

That article presents a detailed mathematical model showing that during short transients, voice coil heating isn’t fast enough to cause noticeable dynamic compression. However, it also notes that with long-term listening or higher sustained temperatures, cumulative compression can occur. In practice (as shown in Stereophile’s tests and reported by listeners), even in home hi-fi speakers, some power compression of around 0.5–1 dB can be observed, especially at higher SPLs. The conclusion is that in very short transients (a few milliseconds), voice coil heating usually isn’t fast enough to limit dynamics. But during extended listening sessions or at high SPL, the voice coil gradually heats up → resistance increases → sensitivity drops → and as a result, the dynamics become compressed.

I have never experienced a loss of dynamics from my speakers on orchestral music (high SPL peaks, up to 100 dB or even above) when it was preceded by music at more sustained high SPL (jazz, rock; up to 95 dB, average somewhat lower) over a good amount of time.

Poof, there goes your theory. Sorry.

 

[Al M.]

That article presents a detailed mathematical model showing that during short transients, voice coil heating isn’t fast enough to cause noticeable dynamic compression. However, it also notes that with long-term listening or higher sustained temperatures, cumulative compression can occur. In practice (as shown in Stereophile’s tests and reported by listeners), even in home hi-fi speakers, some power compression of around 0.5–1 dB can be observed, especially at higher SPLs. The conclusion is that in very short transients (a few milliseconds), voice coil heating usually isn’t fast enough to limit dynamics. But during extended listening sessions or at high SPL, the voice coil gradually heats up → resistance increases → sensitivity drops → and as a result, the dynamics become compressed.

Also, if sensitivity was dropping the SPL output of the speakers would drop during extended listening sessions at the same amp output. That doesn't happen either, the speakers play just as loud at the end of those sessions as at the beginning, at the same amp output (same preamp volume settings).

 

[PeterA]

So wait , only high efficiency speakers have dynamic impact …?

Hillarious ..

Well, I don’t have the knowledge or experience to speak with any kind of authority, but I once thought my Magico Q3 speakers were dynamic. They were driven by Pass XA160.5 monos in a small room. I was very pleased with all sorts of music. Then I was exposed to very sensitive speakers, 114 dB driven by 32 W SETs and my 105 dB 16 ohm corner horns driven by 18 W SETs. I now realize that my old Magicos were not very dynamic, not on drum solos, large, symphonic music, solo piano, nor string quartets. I guess it is all relative.

I hear the effect as greater ease, or effortlessness. There is certainly more jump, factor and explosiveness. More energy in the room. Also, it’s a more open sound with more information. I think it is all a result of efficiency and dynamics. Does that make sense?

 

[LL21]

Yup I agree.

Even with a totally detached building from my main residence I only have 14' by 35' to play with. Loadsa length, not enough girth as the actress said to the bishop.

AG Duo Mezzo might work. But the side wall bounce from the horn would cause all sorts of interesting aberrations. TBH planars are a pretty good solution in such a room.

Trios and bass horns would work in the main residence in a 30' by 60'. Not in a wife friendly manner, however.

Gotta draw a line somewhere.

We are 15'-16' x 40'+. We could probably make the AG Trio G3 work but it would not be ideal in width. By contrast the XLFs work really well. Panels probably not so much given where within the room we would need to place them.

I bet AG Mezzo would also work for you.

 

[Al M.]

We are 15'-16' x 40'+. We could probably make the AG Trio G3 work but it would not be ideal in width.

Yes, I have my doubts that this width would work.

By contrast the XLFs work really well.

I can imagine.

 

[Kozak170]

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Which flight should I take to go and audition that model?

Trios and bass horns would work in the main residence in a 30' by 60'. Not in a wife friendly manner, however.

Well, just keep in mind — horns have a kind of magic that, in any manner, is in no way wife-friendly.

 

[Kozak170]

I have never experienced a loss of dynamics from my speakers on orchestral music (high SPL peaks, up to 100 dB or even above) when it was preceded by music at more sustained high SPL (jazz, rock; up to 95 dB, average somewhat lower) over a good amount of time.

Poof, there goes your theory. Sorry.

May I ask what speakers you have? I own the Sasha 2, and like you, I don’t really notice dynamic compression at high SPLs. But when I compare them to SET/horn setups like the AG Duo, or to high efficiency cone speakers I’ve heard before, such as the Sigma Orchestra 2.9 or the Grandinote Mach series, I’m always struck by their lifelike dynamics and natural flow, especially with classical music. They feel more direct and give a much stronger “you are there” experience.

IMO, Voice coil heating and power compression are real, measurable phenomena; they can be demonstrated with graphs, formulas, and lab tests. However, what truly matters is not just the measurements, but how much these effects impact the musical experience. The loss (or preservation) of dynamics, liveliness, and emotional engagement in the sound is something that listeners perceive more directly through real-world listening than through theoretical models alone. In the end, it’s the ear that reveals the true extent of these effects, not the numbers.

 

[Al M.]

May I ask what speakers you have? I own the Sasha 2, and like you, I don’t really notice dynamic compression at high SPLs. But when I compare them to SET/horn setups like the AG Duo, or to high efficiency cone speakers I’ve heard before, such as the Sigma Orchestra 2.9 or the Grandinote Mach series, I’m always struck by their lifelike dynamics and natural flow, especially with classical music. They feel more direct and give a much stronger “you are there” experience.

IMO, Voice coil heating and power compression are real, measurable phenomena; they can be demonstrated with graphs, formulas, and lab tests. However, what truly matters is not just the measurements, but how much these effects impact the musical experience. The loss (or preservation) of dynamics, liveliness, and emotional engagement in the sound is something that listeners perceive more directly through real-world listening than through theoretical models alone. In the end, it’s the ear that reveals the true extent of these effects, not the numbers.

I have PranaFidelity Dhyana speakers. They are of moderate sensitivity but purposefully designed to be of very low reactance. They have a nominal impedance of 8 Ohm, but importantly, the minimum is still 6.1 Ohm (at 172 Hz). The phase angles are also very shallow. The crossover is relatively simple and they are just two-way speakers, but with multiple drivers (they go rather low in the bass, unlike typical two-way speakers).

The author of this report compares their dynamics favorably to his dad's horn speakers on which he was raised (Altec Corona, sensitivity rated between 97 and 101 dB):

THE Show 2023 - Positive Feedback

THE Show 2023

positive-feedback.com

(First system discussed in the report.)

From the article (emphasis added):

I frankly can't imagine that there's any kind of music these speakers wouldn't be great on, and since tonality, dynamics, and plain old believability are my priorities, I'm completely sold on these speakers.

 

[Kingrex]

This Coherent Audio sounds very good.

Coherent Audio GR18 The One and Only of it's Kind

Learn about one of the finest speakers available. Coherent Audio GR18 Ultimate High Efficiency Speaker at True Audiophile

trueaudiophile.com

 

[Kozak170]

I have PranaFidelity Dhyana speakers. They are of moderate sensitivity but purposefully designed to be of very low reactance. They have a nominal impedance of 8 Ohm, but importantly, the minimum is still 6.1 Ohm (at 172 Hz). The phase angles are also very shallow. The crossover is relatively simple and they are just two-way speakers, but with multiple drivers (they go rather low in the bass, unlike typical two-way speakers).

The author of this report compares their dynamics favorably to his dad's horn speakers on which he was raised (Altec Corona, sensitivity rated between 97 and 101 dB):

THE Show 2023 - Positive Feedback

THE Show 2023

positive-feedback.com

(First system discussed in the report.)

From the article (emphasis added):

I frankly can't imagine that there's any kind of music these speakers wouldn't be great on, and since tonality, dynamics, and plain old believability are my priorities, I'm completely sold on these speakers.

So you actually have relatively high efficiency speakers, and 20–40W SET amps should be quite suitable for driving the PranaFidelity Dhyana under normal listening conditions, where thermal compression wouldn’t be an issue. I had thought you owned low efficiency speakers like Magico or YG.

 

[Kingrex]

Fun video.